So I knew the SH and base cams were slightly different, and now knowing that the mid lobe is the VTEC lobe, I decided to take another peak at the specs in the Helm's...

base & SH have same primary and secondary lobes, BUT mid lobe heights are:

base IN: 36.856
base EX: 36.323

sh IN: 37.229
sh EX: 36.704

Apparently SH's have a bigger VTEC lobe. My assumption is this is to make up for higher drivetrain losses due to the ATTS system; any other ideas? I thought this was interesting though since they always claim hp numbers off of flywheel, and this I assume would make their flywheel hp numbers different.

And also, probably to go along with the differing cams, they also don't have the same valve spring specs...

base IN outer: 45.16
base IN inner: 41.78
base EX outer: 46.72
base EX inner: 39.32

sh IN outer: 40.01
sh IN inner: 43.67
sh EX outer: 44.58
sh EX inner: 41.07

This I found even more interesting as in the SH the intake inner springs are longer than the outer, but not on the base. And the exhaust springs are much closer to the same length on the SH than the base. Any cylinder head or valvetrain experts care to explain?

 

The information in the helms is wrong. Those specs listed for the SH are Type S cam and spring specs. Base and SH use the same parts in the head.

 

interesting.

 

I feel bad for whoever believes the cams and valve springs are the same. It is printed directly in the Honda Manual that they are different. Helms is correct. People don't do their homework and lead others in the wrong direction.

 

First, there is no reason to bump an eight year old dead thread.

Second, you have to decide for yourself what source is the reliable one. There are DOZENS of errors in the factory Helm's service manuals... some that Honda has corrected, and some that they haven't. Now I am not prepared to discuss the validity of the data that you are referencing in your Helm''s manual, however, it is difficult to argue the fact that if you look up the camshaft part numbers for a base car and a SH... the part numbers are the SAME.

INTAKE: 14111-P5M-A00 (1998 base and SH) EXHAUST: 14121-P5M-000 (1998 base and SH)

You decide.

 

The reason I bumped an old thread is because people have the right to have the correct info. Secondly, I didn't say it was from a POS Helms manual. This is a "Honda" factory manual. Vtec cam lobe is taller on the sh and valve springs are slightly taller. But certainly a part number will tell the whole story. I'm sorry you are misinformed.

 

Hmmmm... the Helm's Inc. service manual IS the factory Honda/Acura service manual. The part numbers that I referenced ARE from the Honda dealership. I would like for you to explain to everyone here how you would get the "hotter SH" camshaft from the dealer if you needed to order a replacement ???

 

Or, how about you explain this. No and sorry not a Helms manual. A factory Honda Manual from Honda. Someone hasn't been to Honda School. Never said that you could order new cams that were different, but the stock parts are different.

 

I never suggested that you simply made up your claims. On the contrary, I was confident that you were quoting information from a source that you deemed very reliable. The factory service manuals (which certainly looks like a page from a Helm's manual) should be a quality source. My question to you is how can you support this information with other data to confirm it's validity instead of simply accepting it as gospel ??? I merely posed the possibility that the data may be in error because of the logical parts availability... and the fact that there have been MANY errors in the service manuals over the years.

Since you are a Honda tech, can you measure both pairs of camshafts and verify the data that you have quoted ???

 

Yes Peteyd33, if you can support what you are saying with fact, i.e. measurements of cams from both engines that have been made, and from un-touched engines, you will get much more support for your claim. Until then, everyone on this board that has dealt with these engines, and done measurements of different cams that came in them, will be skeptical.

Fwiw, we have had threads breaking down the usdm cams, jdm cams, type-s cams, euro-r cams, H23A bluetop cams, PDE vs P13 etc.

Hell, if my daughter takes a good nap later, I will try to dig out all of mine, as I have USDM H22 cams, JDM H22 cams, USDM H22A4 SH model cams, that I have removed from their respective engines myself.

 

Yes, that looks like page 6-34 of the Helm's/Honda service manual. Now, as snowbordboy said... what can you offer to prove that the book is right ???

 

I'll have the pics posted in a couple weeks. Engines are 1600 miles away at moment.