No offense, but a 800 suspension system is NOT practical for MOST regular DD users. Hence how companies like Monroe/Gabriel stay in business.

So many people on this board keep saying "I dont want to spend alot" "I need budget suspension" and people keep throwing out 7,8,900 suspension systems.

Whats up with this? I know personally I dont need race ready suspension for my DD. Something in between stock in Konis would prevent half of the threads on this forum from being made, but the same old ball-swinging on Konis continue.

Everyone once in a while someone will throw out Blues (instantly shot down), GR-2s arent even brought up anymore, AGX/Illuminas always get the same response (Save a little and get the good stuff)

Not everyone wants their civics/tegs to drive like Cadillacs, but be able to go over a speedbump without the "boosh""boosh"

I am about to install new shocks/struts and if I cant find a practical alternative other than an OEM replacement, Im just going to go OEM replacement.

 

On my '00 civic I got eibach sportlines, paired up with kyb gr2's and a skunk 2 front camber kit. It rides pretty smooth, handles fine, and I am very happy with it. The kyb gr2's were only like 200 bucks on ebay. My whole setup was like 500 bux and I can't be happier with it!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kicked25th &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Whats up with this? </TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kicked25th &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">AGX/Illuminas always get the same response (Save a little and get the good stuff)</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is simply a matter of fact. AGX's aren't super cheap, and with the money you spend on shocks and installation, you can almost go with a set of real coilovers. Obviously you can save some money if you do it yourself, but it's still more worthwhile- if you're already going to spend the money- to just save a little more and get the good ish.

 

GR-2's are labeled (by KYB) as an OE replacement shock. It's not there to offer any kind of increased dampering or increased performance with a lowered suspension. The positive feel you have is most likely from just replacing old tired shocks.

 

Well I can find AGXs for ~320 and the cheaper Konis tend to hover around 450, so I would say a 40% increase is not a "little more".

I wasnt debating the merits of the GR-2s/Blues, but saying there has GOT to be something in between Blues/GR2s and Koni Yellows thats WORTH buying.

And the GR-2s are advertised as a "Better Handling Ride" vs OEM.


Modified by kicked25th at 11:54 AM 10/23/2008

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kicked25th &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
And the GR-2s are advertised as a "Better Handling Ride" vs OEM.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

They are replacement shocks. It even states this on the KYB website:

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Twin-tube replacement shocks, struts, and cartridges

Purpose: Restores handling and control
The absolute best product to restore handling and control

* Built with quality that matches or exceeds OE
* Components and valving are designed specifically for each application
* Calibrated to compensate for worn suspensions
* Coverage for domestic and import cars, trucks, and SUVs
</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

Even so, thats not the point.

Does anything exist between OEM replacements and 800 setups.

 

try to get koni's in canada, they go for $600 min. so stop bitching.

 

Yes; I suggest reasonable sub-$800 setups all the time. They typically include Tokico Illumina dampers with a quality fixed lowering spring.

However, nobody ever seems to be satisfied with just that, so they rarely follow my advice. Seems that everyone wants champagne on a beer budget. Too bad that doesn't work. When it comes to suspension, there are 4 factors people are concerned with: low cost, high performance, low ride height, and comfortable ride quality. You can only pick two.

If you want to play, you've got to pay. Simple as that. Quality materials and solid engineering aren't cheap. They are, however, often worth the expense.

I find it laughable that some people won't hesitate to drop $1000 on wheels and tires, $1000 on engine bolt-ons, and $1000 on useless dress-up goods, but will balk at spending the same amount on a set of decent dampers, springs and an alignment.

 

Meh Ive got a $100 engine, $300 rims and tires, $100 in mods. Im not wasteful, just broke. and the "pay to play" excuse if old.

If I wanted to AutoX or Road Race, I could understand your impatience, but i just want to be able to go over speedbumps or go up driveways and not scrape without hitting my head on the roof.

And for the Canada guy, thats your own fault. You got nothing on my buddy in england.

Low cost and high performance = ?

Low cost and comfortable ride quality = stock?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kicked25th &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Meh Ive got a $100 engine, $300 rims and tires, $100 in mods. Im not wasteful, just broke. and the "pay to play" excuse if old.</TD></TR></TABLE>
The truth never gets old. Just because you don't like to hear it doesn't mean it will go away if you ignore it.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If I wanted to AutoX or Road Race, I could understand your impatience, but i just want to be able to go over speedbumps or go up driveways and not scrape without hitting my head on the roof.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Then run your stock suspension, or search around the classifieds to pick up someone's used parts.

You talk as if it is some sort of mandatory requirement that your car must be lowered. As if running the stock parts is not an option, or as if lowering the ride height is somehow essential to the car being able to function.

If you really are broke, perhaps you should be thinking about something other than car modifications to spend your money on? Rent? Mortgage? Ultilities? Keep in mind that those people who are able to spend $2000 on dampers do it because they are able to. They have a comfortable income but little overhead and so are left with a large amount of disposable cash after their expenses are covered. We all wish it could be us (myself included), but it's not always in the cards. I don't actively race or modify cars anymore because I can't afford it; I choose to funnel my money into other activities. My daily driven Civic currently has bone stock 112,000 mile springs and dampers, and no swaybars. I like it.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">And for the Canada guy, thats your own fault.</TD></TR></TABLE>
That's about the equivalent of me telling you that it's you're fault that you're broke, and you should deal with it. Neither of you are making a point that has any bearing on the real issue.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Low cost and high performance = ?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Used midrange/high end parts.

"Low cost" is a relative thing. Low cost in terms of a spring and damper combination is still going to run you $500 new at a minimum for something worthwhile. Spend less, and you risk being stuck with crap - which is why I recommend used parts as a great value for the money. I'd rather have a used Corvette than a new Elantra.

The deals are out there. I sold my 3-year-old 30,000-mile (but perfectly functioning) Koni 8041-Sports for chump change some time ago. Put the money toward a nice used set of Bilsteins and had them serviced.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Low cost and comfortable ride quality = stock?</TD></TR></TABLE>
In this case, low cost being essentially free.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kicked25th &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No offense, but a 800 suspension system is NOT practical for MOST regular DD users. Hence how companies like Monroe/Gabriel stay in business.

So many people on this board keep saying "I dont want to spend alot" "I need budget suspension" and people keep throwing out 7,8,900 suspension systems.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sounds like you're ranting about people suggesting performance modifications on a forum that caters to a 99% performance-oriented crowd.

There are people on this board that make recommendations based on knowledge, experience and with the intention of helping out a fellow enthusiast. And there are others who recognize that knowledge and experience, and support the same recommendations.

If you think you are in a position to offer better recommendations and advice, I don't think that anyone would stop you....

 

I had to login for this. Very funny post.

There is a fantastic midrange damper called the Bilstein HD. At about ~$350 its a real bargain. Monotube in design, similarly valved to the Koni Yellow, and Bilstein quality. Sure its not damping adjustable, but thats useless anyways.

It also has an adjustable perch, so you can lower it with just your stock springs.

Not to mention Bilstein has a fantastic revalving service.

I'd say THAT is a real bargain.

So NO, you do NOT need to spend $800 to get something nice for a DD. And pair the Bilsteins up with some slightly stiffer springs, and you'll truly have a sportier feel on the roads.

But thats just my take on this silly topic. There is an abundance of choices. Just sift through the crap.

 

For my 91 CRX, I purchased a set of Illuminas for 389 shipped. And Some HR race springs for 149 out the door. To me, this is a great setup and quite affordable! Both PIC Performance and Targa250R and others made some pretty excellent points already, I just wanted chime in here with the prices I found.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kicked25th &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No offense, but a 800 suspension system is NOT practical for MOST regular DD users. Hence how companies like Monroe/Gabriel stay in business.

So many people on this board keep saying "I dont want to spend alot" "I need budget suspension" and people keep throwing out 7,8,900 suspension systems.

Whats up with this? I know personally I dont need race ready suspension for my DD. Something in between stock in Konis would prevent half of the threads on this forum from being made, but the same old ball-swinging on Konis continue.

Everyone once in a while someone will throw out Blues (instantly shot down), GR-2s arent even brought up anymore, AGX/Illuminas always get the same response (Save a little and get the good stuff)

Not everyone wants their civics/tegs to drive like Cadillacs, but be able to go over a speedbump without the "boosh""boosh"

I am about to install new shocks/struts and if I cant find a practical alternative other than an OEM replacement, Im just going to go OEM replacement. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I just re-read this post, and I'm getting a different impression from your words than I got the first time I read it. It seems that you aren't concerned about lowering the car at all because you didn't mention it, and nowhere did you state that you are running anything other than stock springs.

First of all, what year and model are you driving, and what makes you think that you need all new shocks? I rarely ever see a Honda or Acura with more than one bad shock, let alone all four of them - and I work in a Honda & Acura specialist repair facility servicing 70+ cars per week.

Sure, shocks do wear over time and build less force than new, and sure it's nice to have all new parts, but new shocks aren't cheap and it's wasteful to discard a good one if you don't have a ton of extra cash to burn.

Secondly, with stock springs on a daily driver, you don't need anything super-fancy. Our shop installs KYB GR-2s for stock replacement dampers and we've had absolutely no problems with them on vehicles with OE springs. They work well, they last, and they're inexpensive. GR-2s, Tokico HPs, and even the OEM Showas are well suited to the demands of daily driving and perfectly acceptable for stock springs. You don't need adjustable rebound to drive to work, nor do you need the dampers to build enough force to handle 650 lbs-in race springs. Different purposes require different equipment.

 

(think this is everyone)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Targa250R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

You talk as if it is some sort of mandatory requirement that your car must be lowered. As if running the stock parts is not an option, or as if lowering the ride height is somehow essential to the car being able to function.

My daily driven Civic currently has bone stock 112,000 mile springs and dampers, and no swaybars. I like it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I drive a stock Civic with 168k springs and dampers and NO sway bars and I'm looking for an upgrade. My income is far from extensive but does leave a little room for some upgrades. (And yes, I can pay bills. If not, internet would be the 1st to go.)

As for the mandatory requirement, I would LOVE if a company made stock ride height springs that were a bit stiffer. So far the HIGHEST Ive found were the H&R OEM Sports, but most report not much of a difference over stock and Id rather not spend the money if the difference is unnoticeable.

I read somewhere you can order custom length springs, but that info was fairly minimal and anything custom usually involves $$$$.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Premium Dude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
There is a fantastic midrange damper called the Bilstein HD. At about ~$350 its a real bargain. Monotube in design, similarly valved to the Koni Yellow, and Bilstein quality. Sure its not damping adjustable, but thats useless anyways.

It also has an adjustable perch, so you can lower it with just your stock springs.

Not to mention Bilstein has a fantastic revalving service.

I'd say THAT is a real bargain.

So NO, you do NOT need to spend $800 to get something nice for a DD. And pair the Bilsteins up with some slightly stiffer springs, and you'll truly have a sportier feel on the roads.

But thats just my take on this silly topic. There is an abundance of choices. Just sift through the crap.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats the kind of stuff Im looking for.

Ive seen the Bilsteins around ~320, which is about the same as I can get a set of AGXs or Illuminas and was mainly deciding between the 3 as I was told the Skunk2 struts werent a great product (could be wrong though)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PIC Performance &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Sounds like you're ranting about people suggesting performance modifications on a forum that caters to a 99% performance-oriented crowd. </TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Targa250R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Spend less, and you risk being stuck with crap - which is why I recommend used parts as a great value for the money. I'd rather have a used Corvette than a new Elantra.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I AM looking for performance mods, but not the best of the best. To use a previous analogy, Im looking for a GTO to replace my Cavalier, instead of the Corvette. What would the GTO of Honda Suspension Systems be?

 

The site was down this afternoon for maintenance and it caused some issues with posts in this thread. I deleted duplicate posts from myself and kicked25th.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kicked25th &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I AM looking for performance mods, but not the best of the best. To use a previous analogy, Im looking for a GTO to replace my Cavalier, instead of the Corvette. What would the GTO of Honda Suspension Systems be?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

See, here's the problem. The Konis and GC sleeves are the GTO (to keep your analogy).

When you're ready to step up to the 'vette, then you drop $2k+ on Koni 2811s, Motons, Ohlins, or other race oriented shocks.

You're complaining that $800 is too much to spend, when its already the middle ground between OEM and high quality performance.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kicked25th &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
As for the mandatory requirement, I would LOVE if a company made stock ride height springs that were a bit stiffer. So far the HIGHEST Ive found were the H&R OEM Sports, but most report not much of a difference over stock and Id rather not spend the money if the difference is unnoticeable.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Then buy some spring rubbers. Dirt cheap, no change in ride height.





Modified by TunerN00b at 1:59 PM 10/24/2008

 

Thanks for fixing that for me and for taking the time to reread my OP.

And I know what you mean.

As far as ALL my shocks being blown, that much I dont know. But i know the ride isnt smooth anymore, and like i said, speedbumps sound like my rear shocks are gonna come through the LCAs. And yes, they are installed correctly, its been checked.

I think I may have barked up the wrong tree on this deal. PIC did make a point. If I wanted advice on my Honda, I wouldnt go to LS1tech or moddedmustangs, so why go to the hondatech performance forums if Im looking for DD suspension.

I guess I just wanted to know what the more economically challenged of the Honda world rode on back and forth from work. If thats OEM shocks and springs, then thats what it gonna be.

And to the person that PMd me, I have read that cutting the springs comprises their structural integrity, so Id rather not to that.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TunerN00b &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

See, here's the problem. The Konis and GC sleeves are the GTO (to keep your analogy).

When you're ready to step up to the 'vette, then you drop $2k+ on Koni 2811s, Motons, Ohlins, or other race oriented shocks.

You're complaining that $800 is too much to spend, when its already the middle ground between OEM and high quality performance.

Then buy some spring rubbers. Dirt cheap, no change in ride height.



Modified by TunerN00b at 1:59 PM 10/24/2008</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have never heard of spring rubbers before, thanks for the tip.

And I know all about high dollar suspension systems, though I would consider them more along the lines of a "Z06" or a Ferrari, more than a Corvette.

But bickering back and forth will not get us anywhere. I think its going to be a set of Bilsteins in the front, GR2s/Blues in the rear with used Eibach Prokits (around ~400 out the door) and I might give these spring rubbers a try.


Modified by kicked25th at 3:35 PM 10/24/2008

 

Thanks for all the help guys. Unless someone says something bad about my above mentioned setup

Bilstein HD in front
Blues in Back
Pro Kits all around

I will probably be using them.

I preferred the H&R Sports, but I got the prokits for $55, couldnt pass it up.


Modified by kicked25th at 5:18 PM 10/24/2008

 

Well I have to say this: I've been riding on Koni Sports for nearly 7 years and 170K miles and they're still working great. IMHO their longevity makes them worth the $500 I paid for them. For about 3.5 years I've been running stock GS-R springs in front and stock ITR springs in back with the Konis set to the lowest perch. So my car has a moderately lowered look with a decent ride (slightly stiffer than stock due to ITR rear springs and slightly higher shock damping). IMHO it's a great setup.

 

I would think that perhaps cutting springs might work to enhance the handling.

Cut enough for an inch or so drop, which will at the same time give you a stiffer spring...and also some more negative camber.

Supplemented with koni sports for 500 dollars, might make for a decent handling street car.

So, 500 total.

 

DO NOT CUT YOUR STOCK SPRINGS! like PatrickGSR94 said, you can always use the oem springs with koni yellows..

 

well, now I'm curious....why not?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by makavali27 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">DO NOT CUT YOUR STOCK SPRINGS! like PatrickGSR94 said, you can always use the oem springs with koni yellows..</TD></TR></TABLE>

Can you explain to us why it's bad to cut stock springs? I'm guessing you're saying that just because that's what you've always heard. If used with stock shocks, yes, it is a very bad idea to cut stock springs.

From a physics standpoint, you can cut a stock spring as long as you put it on a damper that can handle it. A cut stock spring is shorter and has a higher spring rate than it originally did, just like a lowering spring.

However, I do <u>NOT</u> recommend cutting stock Civic/Integra springs simply due to the geometry and shape of the springs at each end. Cutting off the end of the spring wire may prevent proper spring seating at the top hat and the spring perch.