Katana Pilot
Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 3

Re: 2008 accord headlights dimming

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I now have verification from the State of Georgia that the headlight dimming/flickering is considered a defect. I filed for arbitration under the Georgia Warranty Rights Act (Lemon Law) and received a ruling in my favor.

Honda will now be required to buy back my car and it will be permanently labeled a Lemon.

Those of you who believe that a bigger battery will cure this problem, please keep this in mind - don't you think Honda would have done this if it was truly a cure? Even if it does work for you, I believe the fix will be temporary until the new battery weakens and you will be back where you started.

Anyone who needs some advice and/or help in taking advantage of the Lemon Law is welcome to contact me through this forum.
this is a post from HONDACARFORUM.COM DATED OCTOBER 10TH 2008

 

Now, there's an interesting development!!

 

Honda did that because they were compelled to by the state, not because of a technical fault or design flaw. if it was a Design flaw they would issue a nationwide recall

 

If you read the post it says the car was found to have a defect...honda would rather take back a few cars than issue a recall..let me also remind you that any car bought back by honda under the lemon law is at that point unsaleable forever.

The floodgates are open my friend and we are moving in. It just so happens my car and another person on here also bought our cars in Georgia..how easy do you think it will be to convince the arbitration board of our complaint. I also will direct your attention to the NHTSA site where there are 159 complaints against this car.
Now if you wish you may close this thread like you did the last one.

 

Going through that list, it looks to me to be the same person just resubmitting the same post over and over again...

My headlights dim also, but it does not bother me anymore. Most of the time I don't even notice now.

 

No, actually there were 101 unique complaints on the NHTSA website for the 2008 Accord. Of these complaints, 70% were for the headlight dimming/flickering defect. There were NONE regarding headlight dimming for any other model of 2008 Honda and there were also NONE for any 2007 Honda of any model. The only complaints for headlight dimming were for the 2008 Accord.

By the way, the arbitration panel that heard my case consisted of two lawyers and one PE (professional engineer). They were unanimous in determining that this characteristic is indeed a defect or non-conformity.

Honda is ignoring the problem because most people will not take the time and expense to fight Honda under the Lemon Laws of their respective states. It is cheaper for Honda to buy back a few cars of those of us willing to fight than to fix the hundreds of thousands of these cars already out there. Owners will either (a) try to get used to it, (b) trade in the car or (c) utilize the Lemon Law. Most will choose (a) or (b) and Honda knows that.

I think the outcome in most States will be the same if people will present a logical case. Honda had absolutely no defense in mine.


Modified by Katana Pilot at 6:23 PM 10/19/2008

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MSchu &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Honda did that because they were compelled to by the state, not because of a technical fault or design flaw. if it was a Design flaw they would issue a nationwide recall </TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree, go ahead and buy some other car so you can complain about some non issue with it. Ive looked at the headlight dim on the accord and I would have to agree with MSchu that its just the design of the car only time it happens is when the AC compressor comes on so for most of the year you wouldnt even notice.

My question is you went through all this trouble why not get a Honda engineer involved

 

Well Mustang in my case I do live in florida in case you didnt notice..hence the a/c is on all the time..secondly I did have an appt with a honda engineer twice...jan 3rd 2008 and feb 13 2008...he never showed. The local service manager refuses to see the car again for the same problem. Now what should I do?

And now I will tell you why the headlight flickering is so annoying...my wife drives the car 99% of the time. Two nights a week she attends college and therefore has to drive the interstate after dark. Therein lies the problem. Figure it out yet? If your TV flickered every 17 seconds while you were watching it, would you consider that just part of the design?..seems to me that an engineer and two lawyers in Georgia probably know more about the issue that you. Post all you want the fact remains that Katana Pilot won his case.

 

I noticed it the first time I drove it at night, I thought it was just me and it was a "new car" thing and would work itself out. After 2k miles, I thought ok, when I get the oil changed, I'll have them look at it and see whats up. Yesterday, I noticed another car behind me at a light and I thought he was flashing his lights at me. After the light turned green, I changed lanes, and he passed me, and it was an Accord! I followed him and noticed his lights were dimming too as mine do. Its very annoying when my car does this and is the only car I have ever seen do this. I have owned quite a few cars (including Civics) and never saw the lights dim like this. Katana, send me some info, or Private Message me, I would like to know more about your case and how you presented it. The only other issue I have is the A/C blows a little warmer than it should sometimes, even in cool weather and going down the freeway. I would need a temperature probe to say how much, but its noticable.

 

Mr. Mustang, you and Mr. Schumacher are two of a kind.

I would have enjoyed a conversation with a Honda engineer, but Honda Corporate's position on this defect is to deny that it exists. I think if you understood how the automatic climate control worked on the EX-L, you would know that the compressor and condensor fans operate MOST of the time in southern climates. Further, the large voltage drop is caused by the fans and not the compressor clutch. The fans are controlled by the climate control system, the compressor and alternator by the engine computer. If the fans were controlled by the ECM, the ECM could trigger the alternator to high before allowing the fans to cut in.

Say what you want about the headlight/taillight/interior light dimming, but it is at the very least annoying and at worst a possible safety issue. Go ahead and start ranting, but the facts are that the arbitration panel found in my favor and Honda had absolutely no defense for the non-conformity.

Further, I have never owned a car (including a 1957 Chevy) that had this issue. I have owned 3 Hondas and two Acuras and this 2008 Accord is the only vehicle that has ever exhibited this "characteristic". My expert witness was a former Air Force Electrical Systems technician who has sold cars, worked on cars and has an Aeronautical Engineering degree. I'm sure you can find fault with his resume, as well. Oh yes, he has owned 10 Hondas and has never seen this defect on any of them or on any other car he has ever driven or sold.

You may work on these cars but I doubt you own one. I do, but not for much longer. It is a shame too, because overall this is a nice car. It's too bad that a design defect and a lousy corporate decision is causing grief for so many of us.


Modified by Katana Pilot at 6:11 PM 10/20/2008

 

There is like 5 threads on the same thing. No Need For That. There are so many worse things that could be wrong with a car other then a dim in the headlights.
1. Your talking only at nite
2. Only when the Ac is on or kicks on
3. Your making it as if the headlights shut off, then come back on.
The interior lights and headlights both dim with the compressor kicks on. Its so slight that you gotta be looking at the bulb to even notice it.
I mean it does this even in your house. Try turing on a microwave or a vacuum, the lights dim for a second. It evens happens in the house.

 

In response to your post..accord 1234...lets say you buy a television and every 20 seconds there is a discernible flicker on your tv screen..its noticeable but does not affect the tv's performance. After a few weeks you get slightly mad about it and call the manufacturer. Their answer is ..its a built in design characteristic to save electricity. Would you continue to watch that tv or would you want it fixed or replaced.

Well this is exactly honda's approach. Yes they know the discernible flicker is there but its there to save fuel...approximately 1/2 mile per gallon.

As stated above I live in Florida and the A/C runs almost constantly day and night not only because of high outside temperatures but also humidity control inside the cabin when the temps are running in the 70's and the humidity is 100%.

Until you live with the problem or have actual experience with it you will not understand.

 

And the problem will get continually worse as the undersized battery weakens. Some have reported radio dropouts as the system voltage drops below operating range. What do you think the long term effects will be on all of the CANBUS computers and the radio and navigation systems? They will fail well before they should.

You folks that don't have a 2008 I4 Accord have no credibility. Honda missed the boat here and it would be a lot easier if they would admit it, fix the problem and move on. However, the expense of repair is greater than they are willing to swallow right now. So they will fight those of us with the determination to make sure the defect is fixed. They'll end up buying back a few cars and hopefully they will redesign the electrical system and future production vehicles will no longer have the "characteristic". I for one, won't have to worry about it.

Those on this forum that have asked for a contact e-mail so they can get help with the Lemon Law process may e-mail me at Honda.Lemon@gmail.com




Modified by Katana Pilot at 5:04 AM 10/21/2008

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MustangLX6.0 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I agree, go ahead and buy some other car so you can complain about some non issue with it. Ive looked at the headlight dim on the accord and I would have to agree with MSchu that its just the design of the car only time it happens is when the AC compressor comes on so for most of the year you wouldnt even notice. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm not sure this is entirely fair.

Although it's a very tiny minority complaining about this evident issue, they are persistent in their belief that it is annoying and not the way a car should be designed.

I think I understand how the vehicle's system was released to the public in this configuration, but I also understand that some people are going to think that this is a very un-Honda way of doing things.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by honeygee2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Two nights a week she attends college and therefore has to drive the interstate after dark. Therein lies the problem.</TD></TR></TABLE>
If it happened to me on some of the back roads that I use for commuting short cuts, I don't think I'd like it, either.

I'd probably break down and buy a bigger battery before I went through all this, if I really liked the car to start with, and I think this is the direction Honda's probably going to move with the issue.

I think that if it bothers somebody so much that they go through all this to complain about it, maybe we should consider spending $50 - $100 on them.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by honeygee2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

As stated above I live in Florida and the A/C runs almost constantly day and night not only because of high outside temperatures but also humidity control inside the cabin when the temps are running in the 70's and the humidity is 100%.

Until you live with the problem or have actual experience with it you will not understand.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I live in LA and also use my A/C all the time. I have had my accord for a little over a month and just a few nights ago I drove home from New Orleans, and I honestly can say that I don't notice the flickering anymore. Just the first few days after I got the car I noticed it.

Even those first few times that I did notice, it wasn't enough to make me wonder if something was wrong with the car. I haven't been flashed yet by another car thinking that I was flashing them.

 

erin is yours a 4 cylinder?

 

If I honestly felt that a bigger battery would cure the problem, I would have done it months ago. Any voltage smoothing that might occur as a result of a larger battery will only be temporary until the inevitable weakening of the battery. If you think this is the cure, why hasn't Honda offered it? I suggest it is for the same reason - it does not fix the defect.

When I started my visits to the dealer, the word I received was as follows -

"Honda is working on a fix that will involve replacement of the engine computer and a wiring harness."

I did not understand why the repair would be so complex until I understood how the car was wired. As I stated in an earlier post, it appears that the fix for the design defect would require ECM control of the condenser fans. That would require a different computer and harness.

I was fine with this approach until I was later told that the fix was no longer being pursued. Instead, dealers were being told to hand out the December 2000 Tech News and inform the customer that the condition exists on all Hondas and is normal.

Sorry, but this was a high level corporate decision as the fix was too expensive and Honda figured most customers would go away believing whatever they were told by the dealer.

I expect Honda (or any other manufacturer today) to get the design right or to develop repairs when they don't. Honda is ignoring this one and that bothers me greatly. Hence the tenacity in pursuing a repair and when that went nowhere, utilizing the laws that protect consumers in cases like this.

One more point and I'm done with the forum -

We are used to getting 100K + trouble free miles out of our Honda and Acura products. What do you think Honda will say when the warranty expires and you start having failures of the computers, radios or nav systems? Do you think they will pick up the tab? I doubt it. Do the math and figure out how many voltage fluctuations these cars will see in 36K miles. The number is huge. If you think these systems will last 10, 15 or 20 years like most Hondas, I think you are wrong. Look up the cost of a radio replacement or a nav display screen and it will scare you. This is why I'm getting rid of mine.


Modified by Katana Pilot at 10:10 AM 10/21/2008


Modified by Katana Pilot at 10:11 AM 10/21/2008

 

Get rid of yours.

I am not getting rid of mine.

 

Yes, because you have the V6 which does not have the defect. Obviously you have not been reading the previous posts. I offered to trade for the V6 and pay the difference in cost but Honda was not interested.

You also avoided the number two complaint of the 2008 Accord by having a car without VCM.


Modified by Katana Pilot at 10:35 AM 10/21/2008

 

well six speed comes with out the VCM, thats why I paid much more than the auto v6.

But like dont we use the ECM to controll the fans and what ever you say or think the problem is...........

Any car can be a lemon but that doesnt mean that every car will. Each car will have a case to go through and then for it to match yours it will have to go what you went through or more to get the decision. I think you got the lemon cause the Honda engineer didnt come out to see your car, he might of had something more important to do.

Also my cuz has a 2008 accord exl-navi......and we go out at night with no problems like you mention. Of all the accords out there maybe 100,000 sold this year or so only 100 complain about it. this adds up to less than one tenth of a percent. wow GOOD JOB HONDAAAAAAAAAAAA

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by honeygee2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">erin is yours a 4 cylinder?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yea it's the I4

 

what do these use? the k24A8?
how about one of you take the ALT out of the car, mesaure the output, then compare it to a known alternator?

my guess is that a k24a1 alt might have a heavier duty unit/cycle

and they're cheap, hell i have 3 of them sitting next to my civic ( building a k24 motor)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
If it happened to me on some of the back roads that I use for commuting short cuts, I don't think I'd like it, either.

I'd probably break down and buy a bigger battery before I went through all this, if I really liked the car to start with, and I think this is the direction Honda's probably going to move with the issue.
I think that if it bothers somebody so much that they go through all this to complain about it, maybe we should consider spending $50 - $100 on them.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I certainly would have tried a stronger battery (optima) before going through all that. Even if the battery only lasted two years, it would be worth it. I wonder what kind of car Katana Pilot is going to try next. I doubt he will find one that's perfect.

 

Safety issue......... no. A safety issue is when your car flips over due to defective tires or bursts into flames from getting rear ended.

Annoying.... yes.

Like I stated in another post, I have a 2002 Accord, and it dims when the AC kicks in but does not cause a blackout. I never considered it a big issue.

I think you might have better luck and success with a 2009 Camry SE 4 cylinder. They are bullet proof and get great gas mileage. Only tradeoff is the numb, electric steering. Mazda 6 looks pretty sharp too, but I don't know enough about it's reliability.