The 1988 EF Hatchback is generally listed at 90lbs lighter than the same model for 1989... what was it they changed?

 

Door mounted seat belts

 

Besides the two extra belt rollers, did the door mounted seat-belt necessitate an extra bump in the floor beneath the seat like on the CRXs in 1990? Were there any other, possibly beneficial, reinforcements made in 89? Were there any added door beams or bumper beams?

 

not all 89's had door mounted, late model 89's had door mounted. my early model doesnt. there might be more braces and such on 89's.

 

What are you cooking up?

 

Only late '89s had the annoying door mounted seat belts - early ones had standard 3 point belts. The biggest difference is the '89s came with a side impact beam in the doors for safety which added a lot of weight. There's also many other small changes they made over the years - added more sound deadening, etc.

 

Just to clarify, we're talking about EF Hatchbacks, base model... not CRXs here.

I'm inquiring for someone who is trying to figure it out as well, but he has found identical parts listings for the two years in terms of door beams and belts.

Is curb weight listed with all options installed? Maybe the AC was not available in the first year?

 

Ok guys, here's the poop. David was asking because I asked him. I am stumped. Here's why...

I am building a track car and want to start with the lightest EF hatch possible. Honda published curb weights are about 90 lbs heavier for the 89 versus the 88 for both the DX and STD. 90/91 are then another 100 lbs heavier still.

I have lots of old Honda parts books from when these cars were first built (dealer used to give them to me when they updated to new ones each year). In particular, I have a book for 3-door Civics from 1990 with 88/89/90 in it. It is actually much easier to see differences with these than the new electronic versions, since you can just scan columns. I also have sales brochures from all of these years.

Anyway, to refute a couple of suppositions, all EF hatches had door bars. All of them. Same part number, too (you can even order it separate from the other parts of the door.) So that's a no-go. And the door-mounted seat belts did not come on board until 1990. All of this is verified via the parts book.

To David's idea about a/c, that was available for all years/trim levels. Dealer-installed, though, so not in the sale brochures. But it is all there in the part book.

The *only* thing I have found is some of the crash-repair unibody bits (i.e. frame sections) have different part numbers. So it is *possible* that a thinner guage material was used early on. Some of these parts are VIN-split within 1988, and others are country of origin split between Japan and Canadian-built.

Or maybe Honda just changed its procedure for weighing cars (e.g. fuel level, trim level, etc.). I dunno.

That is all that I can find. Anybody got any other ideas?

--Andy


Modified by Andy Hollis at 10:21 AM 10/16/2008

 

Best way to find out is have a stock 88 and 89 on the scales, at the same place.

 

I have been pondering over this for a while also. I have 88 std SM civic and I just bought another 88std to swap over my parts into the new car. A close friend of mine has 89std and I honestly don't see the physically difference in weight. I have physically taken apart my 88std to basically the frame when swaping parts over and I have looked over my friends 89std. I really don't see a difference of 90lbs. Thats possibly where the metal frame thickness theory comes into play. Thats honestly news to me.

 

Have you weighed your car and your friends? If it is really 90 lbs, it ought to show up pretty clearly. Of course, you'll have to do some math to adjust each weight according to installed equipment. But still, 90 lbs is a lot and should show up if it is real.

--Andy

 

I know these are hatches, but to correct some one (possibly) only the 90-91 have side impact beams in the doors (30lbs each iirc)... but that applies to CRX's... not sure about hatches.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Andy Hollis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Have you weighed your car and your friends? If it is really 90 lbs, it ought to show up pretty clearly. Of course, you'll have to do some math to adjust each weight according to installed equipment. But still, 90 lbs is a lot and should show up if it is real.--Andy</TD></TR></TABLE>

I never got the chance to weigh my friends car but mine weighed 1950LBS or 2050lbs with a full tank of gas, b16 swap, rear seats removed (31lbs), and 13x8 alumium wheels. I can't seem to remember the weight of my own car . They weighed it at DC nationals a couple years ago when my buddy Chris S. was driving it down their along with me.

*Its not the seatbelt fellows I used to have a 90 civic si and seatbelt difference is a couple pounds*

 

88 rear lca's are itr style and weigh like 2 lbs at most.. 89+ are cast and heavy.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by goforbroke &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

*Its not the seatbelt fellows I used to have a 90 civic si and seatbelt difference is a couple pounds*</TD></TR></TABLE>

The seatbelt difference between the 88-89 and 90-91 is not so much the belts themselves, but the beefed up door and door jam area in the unibody. Also, the seat sliders are different. And this is between 89 and 90 in the Civic (88-89 in CRX).

--Andy

 

firewall is different between years too

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by phoenix_iii &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I know these are hatches, but to correct some one (possibly) only the 90-91 have side impact beams in the doors (30lbs each iirc)... but that applies to CRX's... not sure about hatches. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Parts book shows same door bars for all years of the 4G Civic 88/89/90/91.

I also have a 1988 CRX parts book (1st edition!) which shows them for the 88 CRX, as well. Why are you so certain that the early CRX did not have them?

In fact, here's an electronic version of the 88 CRX which show the door bars as item 6/8:
http://www.slhondaparts.com/br...=true

--Andy



Modified by Andy Hollis at 8:53 AM 10/17/2008

 

88 did have side impact beams..

 

my 88 crx didnt have side impact beams. I know this because i was hit in the door by a chevy 1500 and it folded the door damn near in half haha. The truck was barely doing 25mph. I also took a peek after the door was hit and i didnt see the beefed up door beams in there.

 

I can agree with the door beams.

I was excited to take the old doors off my 89 to swap them onto my 91, but low and behold. Door beams on both.

This was a japanese built car. 1989 civic si hatch.

I'm never quick to throw my findings like that out there though, because my car is a Canadian version and minor things changed in the CDM cars from what I can tell.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 408wdy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">88 rear lca's are itr style and weigh like 2 lbs at most.. 89+ are cast and heavy.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I would agree with this being the biggest single difference