b16a vs b18c
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From: atlanta ga,usa
b16a vs b18c
i have a 97 civic ex with a b16a2 swap it's kinda smoking already so im looking for another swap what do you guys think should i put another b16 or should i go with b18c1....and im not looking to boost any of them any time soon.....just let me know what you guys think
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From: Southside ATL, GA
Re: b16a vs b18c (turbodelsolb16a2)
I happen to be someone who owned a B16A2 swap and a B18C1 swap at the same time in two identical 1992 Si hatches. Both had i/h/e and ran well.
I dynoed both cars same day, same dyno, etc.
B16A2 - 143whp/102ft-lbs. of torque to the wheels
B18C1 - 150whp/122ft-lbs. of torque to the wheels
The peak numbers only tell part of the story. The GS-R engine made so much more power and torque than the B16A all across the board, especially in the low/midrange it's not even a close comparison IMO.
In any gear, any rpm, rolling into the throttle the B18C1 would stomp the B16A - period.
In an all-out dragrace the GS-R was still hands down faster, but seriously the low end and torque makes it so much more enjoyable for around town driving too. You can leave it in 5th gear and just roll into the throttle and it just tugs man. The B16A doesn't really pull until you hit 6500rpm or so.
If you swap the B16A out for the B18C1 engine, but keep the B16A tranny than that will really be much quicker. I had a full GS-R swap with the taller GS-R geared tranny and it still assraped the B16A with its tighter gearing.
From first-hand personal experience having owned and driven both on a daily basis:
<FONT SIZE="7">B18C1>B16A</FONT>
BTW before the B16A ***** attack me I'm not saying the B16A is garbage - I loved mine for the 5 years I had one. I'm just being real about comparing the two, and IMO the GS-R stomps all over a B16A given everything else is equal. I'm sure we'll seea bunch of anecdotal "well my boy's B16A beats Type Rs y0!" but I think my first-hand experience owning identical cars and driving them every day is worth more, especially since I dynoed both cars same day, same dyno.
I dynoed both cars same day, same dyno, etc.
B16A2 - 143whp/102ft-lbs. of torque to the wheels
B18C1 - 150whp/122ft-lbs. of torque to the wheels
The peak numbers only tell part of the story. The GS-R engine made so much more power and torque than the B16A all across the board, especially in the low/midrange it's not even a close comparison IMO.
In any gear, any rpm, rolling into the throttle the B18C1 would stomp the B16A - period.
In an all-out dragrace the GS-R was still hands down faster, but seriously the low end and torque makes it so much more enjoyable for around town driving too. You can leave it in 5th gear and just roll into the throttle and it just tugs man. The B16A doesn't really pull until you hit 6500rpm or so.
If you swap the B16A out for the B18C1 engine, but keep the B16A tranny than that will really be much quicker. I had a full GS-R swap with the taller GS-R geared tranny and it still assraped the B16A with its tighter gearing.
From first-hand personal experience having owned and driven both on a daily basis:
<FONT SIZE="7">B18C1>B16A</FONT>
BTW before the B16A ***** attack me I'm not saying the B16A is garbage - I loved mine for the 5 years I had one. I'm just being real about comparing the two, and IMO the GS-R stomps all over a B16A given everything else is equal. I'm sure we'll seea bunch of anecdotal "well my boy's B16A beats Type Rs y0!" but I think my first-hand experience owning identical cars and driving them every day is worth more, especially since I dynoed both cars same day, same dyno.
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From: atlanta ga,usa
Re: b16a vs b18c (B18C5-EH2)
i am gonna keep my b16 tranny is way better.....i feel like my car really doesn't pull that much i got smoked the other day by a del sol with a stock ls lol
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From: Southside ATL, GA
Re: (instrument)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by instrument »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">since you already got the b16 head/tranny, i'd get a ls block and go for it.
might as well</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well like I've always said:
Honda had the B18A 1834cc LS block out for a few years prior to releasing the B18C engine in 1993 (Japan) - if the LS block was so awesome for VTEC why would Honda "waste" millions of dollars in R&D, retooling costs, and manufacturing costs to reengineeer the LS block only to create a different 1.8L 1797cc GS-R block?
Why did they destroke it?
Why did they add the crank girdle?
Why add oil squirters?
...because they knew the LS was **** for high revving VTEC duty, that's why.
I'd start with a GS-R block before I'd ever build an LS/VTEC, but that's just me I suppose. I don't buy into the theory that that extra bit of displacement is worth the loss of reliability.
might as well</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well like I've always said:
Honda had the B18A 1834cc LS block out for a few years prior to releasing the B18C engine in 1993 (Japan) - if the LS block was so awesome for VTEC why would Honda "waste" millions of dollars in R&D, retooling costs, and manufacturing costs to reengineeer the LS block only to create a different 1.8L 1797cc GS-R block?
Why did they destroke it?
Why did they add the crank girdle?
Why add oil squirters?
...because they knew the LS was **** for high revving VTEC duty, that's why.
I'd start with a GS-R block before I'd ever build an LS/VTEC, but that's just me I suppose. I don't buy into the theory that that extra bit of displacement is worth the loss of reliability.
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Re: (B18C5-EH2)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C5-EH2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Well like I've always said:
Honda had the B18A 1834cc LS block out for a few years prior to releasing the B18C engine in 1993 (Japan) - if the LS block was so awesome for VTEC why would Honda "waste" millions of dollars in R&D, retooling costs, and manufacturing costs to reengineeer the LS block only to create a different 1.8L 1797cc GS-R block?
Why did they destroke it?
Why did they add the crank girdle?
Why add oil squirters?
...because they knew the LS was **** for high revving VTEC duty, that's why.
I'd start with a GS-R block before I'd ever build an LS/VTEC, but that's just me I suppose. I don't buy into the theory that that extra bit of displacement is worth the loss of reliability.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Agreed!
Also, I think the B17A1 was probably an experiment (since it was discontinued) in stroking the B16A/destroking the B18A. I assume they finnaly settled on the 1795cc dispalcement as a comprimise between the R/S ratio of the B16 and the B18A (for high RPM purposes).
Well like I've always said:
Honda had the B18A 1834cc LS block out for a few years prior to releasing the B18C engine in 1993 (Japan) - if the LS block was so awesome for VTEC why would Honda "waste" millions of dollars in R&D, retooling costs, and manufacturing costs to reengineeer the LS block only to create a different 1.8L 1797cc GS-R block?
Why did they destroke it?
Why did they add the crank girdle?
Why add oil squirters?
...because they knew the LS was **** for high revving VTEC duty, that's why.
I'd start with a GS-R block before I'd ever build an LS/VTEC, but that's just me I suppose. I don't buy into the theory that that extra bit of displacement is worth the loss of reliability.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Agreed!
Also, I think the B17A1 was probably an experiment (since it was discontinued) in stroking the B16A/destroking the B18A. I assume they finnaly settled on the 1795cc dispalcement as a comprimise between the R/S ratio of the B16 and the B18A (for high RPM purposes).
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From: Sacramento, CA, USA
Re: (B18C5-EH2)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C5-EH2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why did they destroke it?
Why did they add the crank girdle?
Why add oil squirters?
...because they knew the LS was **** for high revving VTEC duty, that's why.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Also, Honda had to warranty the motor.
Why did they add the crank girdle?
Why add oil squirters?
...because they knew the LS was **** for high revving VTEC duty, that's why.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Also, Honda had to warranty the motor.
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 16,612
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From: Southside ATL, GA
Re: (Juan_Mitosis)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Juan_Mitosis »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why swap out the entire engine if the top half is good? Get a GS-R Block!</TD></TR></TABLE>
Why assume the head is still good?
I've seen any B series engines smoke due to bad valvestem seals/valve guides. Not that these cannot be fixed/replaced, but just saying.
Why assume the head is still good?
I've seen any B series engines smoke due to bad valvestem seals/valve guides. Not that these cannot be fixed/replaced, but just saying.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 475
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From: San Juan, Puerto Rico
Re: (B18C5-EH2)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C5-EH2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Why assume the head is still good?
I've seen any B series engines smoke due to bad valvestem seals/valve guides. Not that these cannot be fixed/replaced, but just saying.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Wow, you're right! It entirely slipped my mind.
Why assume the head is still good?
I've seen any B series engines smoke due to bad valvestem seals/valve guides. Not that these cannot be fixed/replaced, but just saying.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Wow, you're right! It entirely slipped my mind.
HT White Ops
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,813
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From: Arizona Uplands
Re: b16a vs b18c (turbodelsolb16a2)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbodelsolb16a2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">do you guys think should i put another b16 or should i go with b18c1....and im not looking to boost any of them any time soon.....just let me know what you guys think</TD></TR></TABLE>
One thing to *think* about, if it's a DD...
Click the icon to see my B16A2 'fuel log'...
I know gas is relatively cheap now, but it ain't gonna stay that way!
One thing to *think* about, if it's a DD...
Click the icon to see my B16A2 'fuel log'...
I know gas is relatively cheap now, but it ain't gonna stay that way!
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 302
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From: North Florida
Re: b16a vs b18c (mcvtec)
From what I gather, you are looking for a reliable car and not a race car.
If I were in your position I would keep what you have and just rebuild it, the rebuild will cost you less and you know what you have under the hood, but you buy a swap you do not know what you getting and how long it will last plus it cost you more money. However if you looking for performance then I will say different depends on what type of performance you looking for and what's your budget towards the performance build etc...
good luck...
If I were in your position I would keep what you have and just rebuild it, the rebuild will cost you less and you know what you have under the hood, but you buy a swap you do not know what you getting and how long it will last plus it cost you more money. However if you looking for performance then I will say different depends on what type of performance you looking for and what's your budget towards the performance build etc...
good luck...
HT White Ops
Joined: Oct 2001
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From: Arizona Uplands
Re: (B18C5-EH2)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C5-EH2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">BTW before the B16A ***** attack me I'm not saying the B16A is garbage - I loved mine for the 5 years I had one...</TD></TR></TABLE>
I hear ya!
I've thought about this a lot and...
I think the B16A2/S4C/CiViC is THE perfect combo - all things considered!
It's a marriage made in heaven!
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C5-EH2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...if the LS block was so awesome for VTEC why would Honda "waste" millions of dollars in R&D, re-tooling costs, and manufacturing costs to re-engineer the LS block only to create a different 1.8L 1797cc GS-R block?</TD></TR></TABLE>
LoL! Before the B18C ***** attack me...
When Honda re-captured the 'youth market' by re-introducing in Si in '99-'00, why did they use a B16A2 instead of a B18C1?!?!?
I hear ya!
I've thought about this a lot and...
I think the B16A2/S4C/CiViC is THE perfect combo - all things considered!
It's a marriage made in heaven!
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C5-EH2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...if the LS block was so awesome for VTEC why would Honda "waste" millions of dollars in R&D, re-tooling costs, and manufacturing costs to re-engineer the LS block only to create a different 1.8L 1797cc GS-R block?</TD></TR></TABLE>
LoL! Before the B18C ***** attack me...
When Honda re-captured the 'youth market' by re-introducing in Si in '99-'00, why did they use a B16A2 instead of a B18C1?!?!?
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,354
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From: Pottstown, PA, United States
Re: (BlackDeuceCoupe)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BlackDeuceCoupe »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
LoL! Before the B18C ***** attack me...
When Honda re-captured the 'youth market' by re-introducing in Si in '99-'00, why did they use a B16A2 instead of a B18C1?!?!? </TD></TR></TABLE>
My guess is that from a business point of view, having a cheaper/ lighter car (civic) with the same engine as a heavier/ more expensive car (integra) would not be good for sales of the integra.
you cant really have a lower model that out-performs the higher end models in business.
it is the same reasoning porsche had when making the cayman. due to its better weight distribution and lighter weight, they could not put the same engine in it as the flagship car (911). it would have been much faster and much better. for this reason alone they would not do it.
it is quite simple reasoning on Hondas part not to put the b18c in the si.
BUT... that does not mean that people cant do it and make better cars, such as an si with a b18c1 in it or the cayman s with a 911 s engine in it.
LoL! Before the B18C ***** attack me...
When Honda re-captured the 'youth market' by re-introducing in Si in '99-'00, why did they use a B16A2 instead of a B18C1?!?!?
</TD></TR></TABLE>My guess is that from a business point of view, having a cheaper/ lighter car (civic) with the same engine as a heavier/ more expensive car (integra) would not be good for sales of the integra.
you cant really have a lower model that out-performs the higher end models in business.
it is the same reasoning porsche had when making the cayman. due to its better weight distribution and lighter weight, they could not put the same engine in it as the flagship car (911). it would have been much faster and much better. for this reason alone they would not do it.
it is quite simple reasoning on Hondas part not to put the b18c in the si.
BUT... that does not mean that people cant do it and make better cars, such as an si with a b18c1 in it or the cayman s with a 911 s engine in it.
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Joined: May 2008
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From: CA
Re: b16a vs b18c (B18C5-EH2)
same here.. I threw in a gsr motor in my ek.. with some bolt ons and 2.5 inch piping and it flys.. my brother owns a 99 civic si with i/h/e.. it feels like a peice of **** compared to my gsr motor.. so yeah gsr for the win..
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 16,612
Likes: 55
From: Southside ATL, GA
Re: (davefromPA)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by davefromPA »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
My guess is that from a business point of view, having a cheaper/ lighter car (civic) with the same engine as a heavier/ more expensive car (integra) would not be good for sales of the integra.
you cant really have a lower model that out-performs the higher end models in business.
it is the same reasoning porsche had when making the cayman. due to its better weight distribution and lighter weight, they could not put the same engine in it as the flagship car (911). it would have been much faster and much better. for this reason alone they would not do it.
it is quite simple reasoning on Hondas part not to put the b18c in the si.
BUT... that does not mean that people cant do it and make better cars, such as an si with a b18c1 in it or the cayman s with a 911 s engine in it. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Exactly what I was going to say!
Same reason the EP3 Si had a K20A3 in it instead of the be2tter RSX Type S spec K20A2 - cannibalizing sales of their flagship division.
My guess is that from a business point of view, having a cheaper/ lighter car (civic) with the same engine as a heavier/ more expensive car (integra) would not be good for sales of the integra.
you cant really have a lower model that out-performs the higher end models in business.
it is the same reasoning porsche had when making the cayman. due to its better weight distribution and lighter weight, they could not put the same engine in it as the flagship car (911). it would have been much faster and much better. for this reason alone they would not do it.
it is quite simple reasoning on Hondas part not to put the b18c in the si.
BUT... that does not mean that people cant do it and make better cars, such as an si with a b18c1 in it or the cayman s with a 911 s engine in it. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Exactly what I was going to say!
Same reason the EP3 Si had a K20A3 in it instead of the be2tter RSX Type S spec K20A2 - cannibalizing sales of their flagship division.
Re: (davefromPA)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by davefromPA »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">it is the same reasoning porsche had when making the cayman. due to its better weight distribution and lighter weight, they could not put the same engine in it as the flagship car (911). it would have been much faster and much better. for this reason alone they would not do it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Jeremy Clarkson, FTW
Jeremy Clarkson, FTW