So, I am new to building an engine, but not new to engines. I have done quite a bit of work as I am a 4th year apprentice (mechanic) However, they dont teach us anything about performance gains in school, so I read and learn and ask questiosn. This is where you guys come in.

I have a few motors layin around my garage, and I drive a 92 accord. So, I have a complete F22A6 and F23A1. I know Bisi makes good stuff for the F engines, but I wanted to see what you guys recommend.

I would prefer to stay with the stock A6 head, for simplicity and non vtec bragging rights. However, will the A6 head fit on the F23 block? I know a couple guys have put the F23 head on the A6 block, which would lead me to believe that it should work the other way around?

Anyhow, my basic build plan was as follows.

H22A intake manifold, polished
H22A TB
F22A6 head mild port and polish
Bisi stage 2 NA cams
Shoot peened stock rods
Bisi 10:1 pistons
Balance shafts removed
Bisi Cam gear
Megan 4-1 header
AEM CAI
Chiped P28 tuned on chrome by nick @ teknotik

I am shooting for approx 220 crank hp, hopefully yeilding me around the 180-190 whp mark.

If it makes a diffrence, this will be mated to the M2B4 JDM H22A trans.

 

i would step it up a level on everything but thats just me


H22A intake manifold, polished H22A TB( for the same mods you can get a euro r or skunk 2 manifold to work with the head.)
F22A6 head mild port and polish
Bisi stage 2 NA cams

f23a block is good to use. if you keep the 86mm bore then run rsx pistons. their cheaper and will give you good streetable compression
Shot peened stock rods
Balance shafts removed
Bisi Cam gear
Megan 4-1 header(or bisi header with money saved on pistons)


either way sounds like fun

 

It seems that F22 builds are popular than is usual at the moment. I would love to see a a SOHC build followed through to the end. The F22 head is a good start along with Bisi's cam.

I wouldn't bother shot peening the rods. People are revving to 8000 rpm on the stock rods and you'll have no reason to rev that high anyway.

May I ask how you're going to get the H22 IM to fit the F22 head? I've done this I just want to know alternate approaches.

At 10:1 compression are you going to spray the crap out of the engine? 10:1 is very very low compression for an "all motor" build. Honda even is up to 11.5:1 in their high output motors now. If you're springing for forged pistons from Bisi then I'd shoot for at least 11.5:1 IMO. With proper tuning it's very reliable.

Personally I would suggest 87mm on the F23 block for added displacement But that's just me.

Good luck you should easily hit your HP goals especially with a dedicated cam and a ported head.

Pirate

 

Thanks for the responses guys. I was thinking about spraying the motor a lil, thats why I opted for 10:1 pistons.

As for the H22 manifold, I wasnt aware that there were fitment issues, I just knew that alot of people suggest to run that manifold for flow purposes.

So, I take it the A6 head will bolt right to the F23 block with no issue? I wouldent mind the extra displacement, as it can never hurt in the torque department.

From what i gather, there isnt much sense trying to make these engines rev much higher then 7K since they dont make much power up there from my understanding. If I remove the balance shafts, should I have the crank, rods and pistons balanced to compensate?

 

I too would bore the F23 block out to 87mm for the displacment.

Your going to be better off using the H23 IM as its a direct swap. The H22 will take some work to get on the head.

A little head work will go a long way with the F22 head. You won't regret having it done. If you want forged 87mm pistons you can get one's for the TSX or have bisi make you some.

If you want a cheaper alternative for the pistons you can use TSX stock pistons and have them revers mounted in the bore and valve reliefs fly cut.

That will be a fun little motor and project that should net some good results.

 

The head will fit with out problem.

If your daily driving and removing the balance shaft's. I would balance the rotating assy. Not to mention that your wanting diff. pistons. I would have a balance done with just the pistons regardless.

 

This whole this is going to be a learning curve for me. After this motor, I already have a K24A4 block and a K20A2 head waiting to be built for my other accord.

I am picking up the F23 today, and I already have the F22 sitting in my garage with the head off.

What kind of timing belt are people running with these motors? Is the OEM honda one good enough or is there an aftermarket one I could pick up that is less likly to snap under the additional stress?

 

Just use an OEM timing belt for the F22a. If you get a timing belt for the F23 it will be to short, trust me on this one

 

So, I just got my F23 motor and trans. I also have the top half and IAB plate off an H22A manifold.

I was looking into diffrent OEM intake manifolds, and I wonder if the euro r would be a good option. From my understanding it comes polished from factory so it should flow pretty good?

What exactly has to be modified to make a H22 intake manifold to fit onto the A6 head?

 

You'll need to re-do the bolt pattern, block a coolant port, block the EGR, and do some port matching.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PirateMcFred &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You'll need to re-do the bolt pattern, block a coolant port, block the EGR, and do some port matching.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, I dont think I will be doing that then. This motor will be in a daily driver, and for emissions reasons, I think my car would rather have an EGR system working when it comes time to shove the sniffer in the tail pipe

 

I would suggest bisimoto.com

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SOHCinWA &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would suggest bisimoto.com</TD></TR></TABLE>

Already been there and placed my order for the Stage 2 NA cam.

 

Valesprings, cam gear, and possibly an intake spacer might also help you out without breaking your wallet.

 

I was already planning on getting the cam gear, as it will be utalized during tune/build up.

How will valve springs help me make power? I understand that I could safely rev the car a lil higher, but I dont really see the car making power above the stock 6800rpm mark anyway.

If there is something I am missing, please inform me, I am here to learn

 

Not to make more power but just to be on the safe side is all.

 

i have a F22A block and head laying around. and was toying around with the idea of building a F22A... head will be sent to CC to see what it really can do... but i was wondering if the F22A block can be bored out to 87

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FLATBUSH PROJECTS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i have a F22A block and head laying around. and was toying around with the idea of building a F22A... head will be sent to CC to see what it really can do... but i was wondering if the F22A block can be bored out to 87</TD></TR></TABLE>

You are in So Cal... Talk to Bisi or Hedi @ Evolution. They can give you the correct info on that for sure.. We have one in our camp that makes 290whp on basically a street setup...

 

ill talk to bisi... i have some type-S pistons laying around wanted to se if i could bore it out to87 and and see what happens....

 

We just recently finished our F22 project and actually got some seat time in the car this last weekend at BOTI. We are running a F22 non-vtec head as well. We are going to be making some changes to our setup, but with the old pistons 13.8:1 and small cam the motor made 280hp and 205tq at 8500RPM. That head with the right porting can yield some great numbers. Definitely talk with Bisi as he will steer you in the right direction. If you have any questions that I might be able to help with let me know.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTECJUN &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">We just recently finished our F22 project and actually got some seat time in the car this last weekend at BOTI. We are running a F22 non-vtec head as well. We are going to be making some changes to our setup, but with the old pistons 13.8:1 and small cam the motor made 280hp and 205tq at 8500RPM. That head with the right porting can yield some great numbers. Definitely talk with Bisi as he will steer you in the right direction. If you have any questions that I might be able to help with let me know.</TD></TR></TABLE>

13.8:1 is a bit extreme for a DD in my case.

However I an thinking of shifting my 10:1 plans to something around the 12-12.5 mark. I have 94 octane available at the pump up here in Canada, is that enough octane to run 12.5:1 if the timing is adjusted properly?

Also, do you have a dyno graph of your pulls? Hows the torque? To be honest, this car is mostly going to be for weekend street racing as bad as it sounds. So, I pretty much am looking for straight line speed.

If you don't want to publicly share your info, if you could PM me a copy of your set up, I would love to see what I should be looking for. Realistically I want to be at or above the 200 Hp mark, if I am lower then that, I may as well get a stock H22A and swap that in and save the hassle.

Any insight that anybody would have would be much appreciated, and I will get in contact with bisi, as I believe he is the god of the F

 

If you have the right tuner, you can tune it on 15 to 1 on pump gas.... 13 to 1 is not hard to run on the street.... Matt, you guys did very well with what you had to deal with. I am proud of you guys putting it together in just a few days.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SOHCinWA &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you have the right tuner, you can tune it on 15 to 1 on pump gas.... 13 to 1 is not hard to run on the street.... Matt, you guys did very well with what you had to deal with. I am proud of you guys putting it together in just a few days.</TD></TR></TABLE>

So, you think I can safely run 94 octane? The only problem is, 94 is only available at 1 gas station, and thats sunoco. So, if I was ever in a pinch I would have to run 91, so I wouldent want to risk it. On the other hand, if I have the car tuned to 91, and run 94 that would defeat the purpose of the tune wouldent it?

I dunno, I am thinking I should tune to the fuel I will run all the time. But I am just worried about being forced to put 91 and detonating the motor

 

Honestly you should be just fine. If you are in a pinch and have to run lower octane, just dont get on it.

 

So, I took the F23 block apart today, I will hopefully get the block to a machine shop soon. I dont think I am going to bore it out, just have it hot tanked and rehoned. I still want to have the oem rods shot peened for safty just in case since there is over 200Km on these rods.

I am trying to follow a DIY on removing the balance shafts and sealing the oil pump cover without buying a kit.

I just e-mailed bisi and I am going to see what he suggests for the valve train.

another question. If I get the head ported, is it possibe to have it ported too much for the build? Is there a specific CFM I should be aiming for, or should I just have it done and not worry about it?