Based on an average 1.8 street motor with 11.5ish cr, stage 2/3 cams, single stage IM and a decent header.

I have read there is a lot of flow to be gained in the valve job alone regardless of port work.

Im not trying to tap into any trade secrets here, not even talking competition application, just would like to know what works well for everyones street aps. In the past I have dropped off pr3 and p72 heads and just requested the seats cut to std 2000 ITR specifications with great results.

Is there a better valve job to have done to a stock port, stock valve B series head than ITR specs?

 

Yes, but you wont find the answer here. Unfortunately, people dont spend their own money own flowbench time, custom cutters, hours of labor spent on the head, etc. etc. to turn around and give out the info.

For stock B series port, ITR VJ works well.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Combustion Contraption &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yes, but you wont find the answer here. Unfortunately, people dont spend their own money own flowbench time, custom cutters, hours of labor spent on the head, etc. etc. to turn around and give out the info.</TD></TR></TABLE>Ain't that the truth brother

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Combustion Contraption &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">For stock B series port, ITR VJ works well.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

Totally understood.

I should ask can the difference be signifigant enough to actually go and ship the head out to a well known company just for their custom vj and resurface with no port work done?

 

try giving a reputable shop a call and see what they can do for you or what they can suggest for your app.

hondatech is full of knowledgable people but they like to spend their time talking themselves up rather than helping someone out or possibly bringing in buissness

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ef1.8 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Totally understood.

I should ask can the difference be signifigant enough to actually go and ship the head out to a well known company just for their custom vj and resurface with no port work done?</TD></TR></TABLE>

this is for a street app correct?

if your valves, seats, and guides are in good shape why not simply clean your head and valves, lapp them in, install some new seals and be done w/ it. you could save yourself a ton of money and have the same results for your app.

 

send the head to CC and that head will flow

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NAH2B &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hondatech is full of knowledgable people but they like to spend their time talking themselves up rather than helping someone out or possibly bringing in buissness </TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree 100%. I mean, its not like I offered to clean and flow test HT member 7riverA7's ALANIZ head for free when he got the shaft, right? I also didnt give HT member FLATBUSH PROJECTS a killer deal on a 330+cfm H22 head, right? Im not the one who supplied the stock GSR head to HT member b19coupe for flow testing for the GSR vs B16 head thread , was I ? Im also pretty sure I didnt drive all the way from Garden Grove area to Perris just to help HT member "sheepey" with a head install on his hatch a while back. I am definitely not giving HT member "Stoopid_1" some free manifold work due to an error I made on shipping.

Yea, we are a SUPER greedy bunch, here.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Combustion Contraption &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I agree 100%. I mean, its not like I offered to clean and flow test HT member 7riverA7's ALANIZ head for free when he got the shaft, right? I also didnt give HT member FLATBUSH PROJECTS a killer deal on a 330+cfm H22 head, right? Im not the one who supplied the stock GSR head to HT member b19coupe for flow testing for the GSR vs B16 head thread , was I ? Im also pretty sure I didnt drive all the way from Garden Grove area to Perris just to help HT member "sheepey" with a head install on his hatch a while back. I am definitely not giving HT member "Stoopid_1" some free manifold work due to an error I made on shipping.

Yea, we are a SUPER greedy bunch, here. </TD></TR></TABLE>

 

you didnt offer to pay for a resurfacing and cleaning on my head if it didnt seal cause of that divit between #3 and #4 cylinder.which you didnt cause. which i still have yet to install

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NAH2B &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if your valves, seats, and guides are in good shape why not simply clean your head and valves, lapp them in, install some new seals and be done w/ it. you could save yourself a ton of money and have the same results for your app.</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is also bad advice. Dont lap valves in. It doesnt do anything but grind abrasive grit into the seat and the face of the valve. If youre short on cash, send me the head for a "basic street package". That will get you a good valve job, blended 1" into the throat of the port, new stem seals and a resurface for a nice , flat sealing surface. And you wont wind up with a stock valve job with a bunch of abrasive grit ground in. I will even honor my "sept. special" pricing for you, if you do it within the month of October.

I am such a jerk.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 4g hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you didnt offer to pay for a resurfacing and cleaning on my head if it didnt seal cause of that divit between #3 and #4 cylinder.which you didnt cause. which i still have yet to install </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yup, thats also something I didnt offer to do because I am such a jackass.

 

your such a jackass,i think i will continue to give you my buisness

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Combustion Contraption &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I agree 100%. I mean, its not like I offered to clean and flow test HT member 7riverA7's ALANIZ head for free when he got the shaft, right? I also didnt give HT member FLATBUSH PROJECTS a killer deal on a 330+cfm H22 head, right? Im not the one who supplied the stock GSR head to HT member b19coupe for flow testing for the GSR vs B16 head thread , was I ? Im also pretty sure I didnt drive all the way from Garden Grove area to Perris just to help HT member "sheepey" with a head install on his hatch a while back. I am definitely not giving HT member "Stoopid_1" some free manifold work due to an error I made on shipping.

Yea, we are a SUPER greedy bunch, here. </TD></TR></TABLE>


UMM did i miss something????


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Combustion Contraption &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

This is also bad advice. Dont lap valves in. It doesnt do anything but grind abrasive grit into the seat and the face of the valve. If youre short on cash, send me the head for a "basic street package". That will get you a good valve job, blended 1" into the throat of the port, new stem seals and a resurface for a nice , flat sealing surface. And you wont wind up with a stock valve job with a bunch of abrasive grit ground in. I will even honor my "sept. special" pricing for you, if you do it within the month of October.

I am such a jerk.</TD></TR></TABLE>

actually its good advice seeing how it saves time, money, and keeps you from having to cut new seats for no good reason which results in a small compression loss. of course machine shops will never admit to there not being a need for a vj in most cases because they would lose money if it became common knowledge.

as for the grit in the seats.....let me ask you this. do you lapp in each valve after you cut a new valve job?

 

Let me clear something up here-

Ive been out of the loop for a little while.

I wanted to know if there was a new common knowledge or known spec people are using with local machinists that was not a secret. Since the last time I had a valve job done was with ITR specs some years back.

I understand where both those guys are coming from. They give up what works and then anyone can have that done elsewhere. But understand I was not looking for ones "Shop Recipe" Just wanted to know if there was something going on everyone but me knew.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NAH2B &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

if your valves, seats, and guides are in good shape why not simply clean your head and valves, lapp them in, install some new seals and be done w/ it. you could save yourself a ton of money and have the same results for your app.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ive done this in the past, with my own exsisting heads I could trust and knew the status (change seals, valvesprings ect.). Im starting a new build and have a used head that I cant trust the prior condition and would like to start fresh with so I dont chase my tail. Flat surface, good valves and vj, ect.

CC- How sad is this- The reason why Im still on stock port heads for ever is not for cost, but because I cant rest assured a cylinder head wont arrive half hanging outta the box. Not only do I have bad luck and hate shipping, I always find an excuse why I shouldnt send something that big, and then my power output suffers from it. Ridiculous. Long story short, Ive just never felt comfortable shipping a head, otherwise there would be no reason to ask about vj specs.


Modified by ef1.8 at 6:33 PM 9/28/2008

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NAH2B &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">try giving a reputable shop a call and see what they can do for you or what they can suggest for your app.

hondatech is full of knowledgable people but they like to spend their time talking themselves up <U>rather than helping someone out </U>or possibly bringing in buissness </TD></TR></TABLE>

 

yup, i see it all the time

 

ef1.8 where are you located?? if you want you can drop the cylinder head off to me and i will take care of it for you....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NAH2B &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


as for the grit in the seats.....let me ask you this. do you lapp in each valve after you cut a new valve job?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

combustion contraption, just curious

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NAH2B &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">UMM did i miss something????</TD></TR></TABLE>

Your own quote apparently.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NAH2B &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

combustion contraption, just curious</TD></TR></TABLE>

No. We go through alot of trouble to get precise angles and widths. To grind them with abrasive crap would be kind of backwards. Lapping is for the "stone" age. If youre just doing it to see where the actual seat falls on the face of the valve theres a much better way.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ef1.8 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">CC- How sad is this- The reason why Im still on stock port heads for ever is not for cost, but because I cant rest assured a cylinder head wont arrive half hanging outta the box. Not only do I have bad luck and hate shipping, I always find an excuse why I shouldnt send something that big, and then my power output suffers from it. Ridiculous. Long story short, Ive just never felt comfortable shipping a head, otherwise there would be no reason to ask about vj specs.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have never once had a problem shipping a headf. If you just pack it like a normally functioning adult would, you will be fine. What I recommend is this: Get a box very close to the size of the head so it doesnt have room to slosh around. Wrap the head generously in bubble wrap, then fill the rest of the box with packing chips/ or newspaper. If the fit is tight when you pick up the box; meaning you can tip the box side to side and you dont feel the weight of the head shifting; you will be good to go.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Combustion Contraption &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Your own quote apparently.

No. We go through alot of trouble to get precise angles and widths. To grind them with abrasive crap would be kind of backwards. Lapping is for the "stone" age. If youre just doing it to see where the actual seat falls on the face of the valve theres a much better way.


I have never once had a problem shipping a headf. If you just pack it like a normally functioning adult would, you will be fine. What I recommend is this: Get a box very close to the size of the head so it doesnt have room to slosh around. Wrap the head generously in bubble wrap, then fill the rest of the box with packing chips/ or newspaper. If the fit is tight when you pick up the box; meaning you can tip the box side to side and you dont feel the weight of the head shifting; you will be good to go.</TD></TR></TABLE>

t me add . if you want to save some money on shipping DO NOT send the cam caps, rails cams, manifold.... and try to clean up as much oil as you can...... hope that helped

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NAH2B &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">actually its good advice seeing how it saves time, money, and keeps you from having to cut new seats for no good reason which results in a small compression loss. of course machine shops will never admit to there not being a need for a vj in most cases because they would lose money if it became common knowledge

as for the grit in the seats.....let me ask you this. do you lapp in each valve after you cut a new valve job?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well let me ask you some questions-

Do you think that a factory valve job with most likely 100K mi on will make the same power as a vj from a reputable head porter?And if so why?

Exactlly how much of a compression loss is there from doing a valve job from someone who's not an idiot and buries the seat?

If the head is milled the usuall amount of .005-.010 to correct the factory deck back to straight does this,or does this not,make up for the small gain in cc's from the valve job?

What grit lapping compound do YOU use for lapping in seats that don't seal?

Is that the same grit as some shops who do lap to check seats after a vj?And if not what do they use?

 

I think he is going to slip away into the internet universe and pretend he wasn't asking questions like he knew what he was talking about.....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Combustion Contraption &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Your own quote apparently.

No. We go through alot of trouble to get precise angles and widths. To grind them with abrasive crap would be kind of backwards. Lapping is for the "stone" age. If youre just doing it to see where the actual seat falls on the face of the valve theres a much better way.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

sorry if you took my post the wrong way, you sure are defensive for such a nice guy

as for NOT hand lapping a valve to a freshly cut seat, NO THANKS
i will stick w/ the "stone age" method since im in no hurry.

so what about a head that you are not replacing or honing the guides? you still use the "precise angle and measurement" trick and just cross your fingers?
surely you have to do some lapping on some heads, no?

either way what about all the cylinder heads that have been done around the world up to date using grinding compound and hand lapping after a fresh valve job has been performed to ensure a proper seating surface and good seal? is there something wrong w/ all these cylinder heads that only you know?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NAH2B &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">try giving a reputable shop a call and see what they can do for you or what they can suggest for your app.

hondatech is full of knowledgable people but they like to spend their time talking themselves up rather than helping someone out or possibly bringing in buissness </TD></TR></TABLE>Explain to me how telling/giving away for free something to someone who want's to goto his local shop for work is going to get me biz?

I don't know what it is you do for a living but the day you walk into your bosses office and tell him you want to have your check donated to a stranger give me a pm.


Modified by Fkned at 10:35 PM 9/28/2008