95 b18c1 block 81.5mm bore

-Eagle H beam connecting rods
-Cp 11.5:1 high compression pistons
-All acl Bearings
-Arp head studs
-File fit rings
-Hot tanked

-Brand new Type R oil pump
-Brand new Type R waterpump
-Brand new Type R timing belt and tensioner
-Brand new front crank seal
-Brand new main seal
-Password jdm magnetic oil drain bolt

99 B16A2 Head

-RLZ Ported and Mild Polish (shiny polishing sucks for air/fuel mixture)
-SuperTech Inconel Exhaust Valves
-SuperTech Black Nitraded Intake Valves
-5 Angle Valve "Job"
-PortFlow Inner/Outer Spring Set
-PortFlow Titanium Retainers
-Manley Hardened Steel Retainers
-Golden Eagle 3 ring cam seal
-Hondata intake manifold gasket
-Stock distributor with new cap and rotor
-AEB's polished intake manifold
-Type R throttle body,injectors and all other sensors

I was running Skunk 2 stage 2 tuner series,but one broke where the cam gear mounts and Skunk 2 will not replace it

So which cams will I make the most streetable power with,im looking for both mid-top end seeing how I have a Type R tranny,low end I can deal with.

The car is daily driven and will be properly Tuned. I am currently running a ITR 2.5 collection header and made 212 with the Skunk 2's im looking to of course make more or around that figure. The head has been milled a couple times so im probally looking at about a 12.1 C/R.


Any input is appreciated,I searched and well,my set up is not very similar to others.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jaredvabeach &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">-RLZ Ported and Mild Polish (shiny polishing sucks for air/fuel mixture)
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Did Brad tell you this?

 

Mentioned it,then well put some thought into it and it seems very lickly. A rougher texture would cause the air/fuel to mix quicker and thus igniter quicker and with more of a 'bang'

 

http://www.webcamshafts.com

Stage 3 for Honda B-series. Less 0 lift duration, far more .050 lift duration, less lift, and, superior power if I'm not mistaken.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jaredvabeach &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Any input is appreciated,I searched and well,my set up is not very similar to others.
</TD></TR></TABLE>


How is that? Other than portwork by RLZ, your build is a very typical one that has been done on here. I can't see why cam selection would be difficult, I look at your build and think of all the typical cam shaft choices used on builds like that...why is it difficult?

 

Well when searching ive ran across tons of LS/Vtec builds or builds with much high of a dome on the pistons. I also chose to stay around the stock bore,many have not.

I also only plan to rev out to about 9-9.5k and have my power band from the mid to high rpm peak power.

I have a felling that my intake manifold can handle a greater increase in cam lift and in return duration.

Also since ive choosen to have my peak power at mid-upper rpm range I want to go with a tighter LSA,but in return I will most likely in the future go with a better designed header.

 

Buddy Club 3's Sk2s2's Crane 1's Should i keep going?

 

Skunk 2 Pros?

and yes keep going but explain why your selecting those.


Why the stage 2's and not the stage 1's? The high lift of the stage 1's and shorter duration will yield the power band im looking for.


I debating between Toda spec b/c,crower 63412,and Skunk 2 stage 2 pro.


Modified by jaredvabeach at 7:20 PM 9/18/2008

 

An LS/VTEC only has slightly more stroke but is still very close. Higher dome pistons would yeild higher compression but again, we're still talking about the same displacement. Planning to rev to 9-9.5k makes no sense unless your car actually makes power up there or you have gearing that puts your rpm's up in that range frequently. Your intake manifold is only an AEBS...ported or not it really doesn't change the dynamics much of your engine. Tighter LSA or wider doesn't matter much if you're running adjustable cam gears and dial them in to what the motor wants. Better header is always a good idea.

People seem to think parts change things. You really just have to look at the displacement (1.85L) look at the comp ratio (11.5-12:1) Head (ported), desired power range (mid to top end) and you pick from the 1.8L camshafts available. That would leave Skunk 2 stage 3 (not pro) Rocket M22x, and maybe BC 4 or custom grind. That's about as hard as it gets....

These are just some of your possible choices but there is no best unless you're willing to dyno them and see which one your engine likes more.

 

I appreciate your post,my last dyno with a Type R replica and the Stage 2's i was making power up to 8600,from there I still maintained power but stopped gaining of course.

As for the manifold, yes I know it is only an AEB's but it was port matched,although that doesnt help me with the runners.

I just noticed your motor is very similar to your. How are you likeing you cams and what are you putting down?


Modified by jaredvabeach at 7:34 PM 9/18/2008

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jaredvabeach &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> The high lift of the stage 1's and shorter duration will yield the power band im looking for.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Careful....

B19coupe has made great #'s with Toda C's in his 1.8.. Pro2's installed properly would be good. M22x's will make power to your desired rpm. ALL are going to want a better header.

 

In the end, the person who is going to know best is the one who did your cylinder head. Brad, IMHO, is the best at what he does and would never question his product....there is a reason why he has a waiting list. Talk to him, not Honda-tech.

 

^^^ Thats what I was wondering. Why didn't Brad recomad a cam for your build, since he did the head work.

Also find a better header for your set up.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jaredvabeach &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Mentioned it,then well put some thought into it and it seems very lickly. A rougher texture would cause the air/fuel to mix quicker and thus igniter quicker and with more of a 'bang'</TD></TR></TABLE>

here's the quick explanation on why smooth polished intake runners aren't as cool as some people think they are. a slight texture in the runner has been shown to promote swirl and faster airspeed. inside the chamber they have gidgits that actually measure the rpm the air is flowing and even better, it's consistancy. chamber shape has a HUGE impact on this and the honda's are very good from what i'm told.

as far as cams. i'm a big fan of the crower stage 2 for a 9,000rpm steet motor. the small primary lobe and aggressive v-tec is a nice combo for a street/strip car.
the other reason i suggest these is your compression. while some all out cams work at 11:5 i can't imagine they would make much if any more in the HP dept. than the crower 2's and you also have to contend with the problems of really aggressive lobes, the tuning, mpg and stop & go traffic. some of the really wild cams seem to shine at 12:1 or 12:5-1 since they are so large; cylinder pressure gets bled down to where guys actually get these things running on pump gas.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jaredvabeach &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> The head has been milled a couple times so im probally looking at about a 12.1 C/R.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Hopefully you have the clearance to run these cams.

 

Very nice use of info. I wasnt sure which pistons or block I was going to be using so I couldnt receive much help when having the head machined.

So would you prefer the Crower 2's over Skunk 2 Pro 2's??

And are you thinking I would make most streetable power out of my DD,on pump gas,and with as much as reliabilty as possible?

To be exact the head was shaved 10/1000's 2 times so im not 100% on the C/R but around the ball park area of 11.5-12.0.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jaredvabeach &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I appreciate your post,my last dyno with a Type R replica and the Stage 2's i was making power up to 8600,from there I still maintained power but stopped gaining of course.

As for the manifold, yes I know it is only an AEB's but it was port matched,although that doesnt help me with the runners.

I just noticed your motor is very similar to your. How are you likeing you cams and what are you putting down?


Modified by jaredvabeach at 7:34 PM 9/18/2008</TD></TR></TABLE>

It is AEBS For Christ sake.

Sorry, it was bugging me.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jaredvabeach &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So would you prefer the Crower 2's over Skunk 2 Pro 2's??</TD></TR></TABLE>

Waaaay different cams. My roomate pulled his BC 2's out and installed S2S2's, gained power everywhere. I will not tell you how much, if he wants he can chime in. I've only saw 1 person here on the board make power with the Crower's and thats Rollo, but made very impressive power. I think a lower lift/higher duration profile is what will benefit you most.

You're making 212 on a 1.8 though man, not many people can say that. I would say you're to the point where if you want more power, it's time to sleeve. If that is not an option but want to be quicker, then look into a 4.9 FD or MF gear set.

 

i think the skunk pro 2s are bigger. if you're around 12:1 compression you might benefit from the pro2's longer duration. also BC and crower are two different companies and two different cams. i always worry when people give advice on those yet fail to realize this.

let's look at some of these numbers.

the skunk2 pro2+ cam

Intake Lift Adv. Dur.@.004" @.050"

Primary .376" 265° 203°
VTEC .493" 302° 258°
Secondary .406" 270° 213°

Exhaust Lift Adv. Dur.@004" @.050"

Primary .375" 272° 213°
VTEC .458" 312° 265°
Secondary .374" 270° 213°

we'll call this a 258/265 cam with .493/.458 lift just to keep it simple.

the crower stage 2 has stockish primarys which is why it's so tame under v-tec, also note, these crower numbers are on the v-tec lobe

intake is 255 deg of duration at .50 and .466 lift, total duration is 311
exhaust is 248deg of duration at .50 and .466 lift total duration is 309

we'll call this a 255/248 cam with .466/.466 lift to keep it simple.

what's all that mean if you're new to this numbers game? well it means the skunk 2 pro 2 is much more aggressive and should make more HP if the engine has the compression to support it. the skunk cam also has faster lobes which will require more spring pressure since the ramps are greater. only the crower stage 3 is compariable to the skunk2 pro2. the crower stage3's are

263 intake 255 exhuast duration @.50 and .488 lift

the stage 3s are also on a factory sale at crower for $449 which is cheaper than the skunks. which would i choose? who knows? the skunk has the most aggressive ramps of them all and the most lift on the intake side. all of this means you need some serious springs and i would highly suggest ti retainers to help keep the weight down. light valves like the ferrea 6000s aren't a bad idea either. at least i know those weigh 5g less on each side than OE honda. some of the other aftermarket valves actually are heavier than OE. gee...just what we don't need at 9k. if you really are at 12:1 compression or above the crower 3's or skunk pro2s would really make a kick *** all motor setup. i might make this choice based on what your head flows. many honda heads like to stall around .450 lift. if yours actually moves more than say, 3-4cfm at .500 over .450 the skunks larger intake lift would probably give them the edge. if however your head stalls at .450 lift the crower 3s will be easier on the valvetrain and have similar duration to the skunks.

 

And, although you say they (Skunk2's) are the most agressive, truth is, if anyone would have bothered to look at the site I posted earlier, they'd quickly find that the Web Stage 3's are far more agressive than the Skunk 2 in ramp angles, with .470 intake, and .450 exhaust lift.

What does that mean? Well, you probably have little need to worry about the air stalling, and with the superior ramp angles, overall power is increased, with extreme gains in the mid-range....

I.E. Intake is 294 Adv, with 270 @ .050. That's 24 degrees difference....
Compare that with the Skunk 2, at 302/258, and the Skunk2, which you consider fast, has a 44 degree difference.... Or, about half the ramp speed!

The exhaust is only 20 degrees difference, for a very agressive ramp, and is only .450 lift.

For some, that may seem like too much duration for a 12:1 setup.

More comparable to the stage 2's from the other manufacturer's, the Web Stage 2 Cams have a .050 duration of 259/252, but with a 20 degree spread on the intake, and 24 on the exhaust.... Still, far superior in ramp angle to the acclaimed Skunk2, and with a mild .455/.415 lift, it may prove very good for the application.

Again, just my .02

 

Wow thanks everyone I appreciate your knowledge. I think I may just go with the Skunk 2's,they are easy to source locally around my area, and although my first set broke, im more than willing to put the money where the power is. Anyone who disagrees with these cams for my setup please chime in at any time. If not again, I appreciate everyones words.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by OneSlow92EGSi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">And, although you say they (Skunk2's) are the most agressive, truth is, if anyone would have bothered to look at the site I posted earlier, they'd quickly find that the Web Stage 3's are far more agressive than the Skunk 2 in ramp angles, with .470 intake, and .450 exhaust lift.

What does that mean? Well, you probably have little need to worry about the air stalling, and with the superior ramp angles, overall power is increased, with extreme gains in the mid-range....

I.E. Intake is 294 Adv, with 270 @ .050. That's 24 degrees difference....
Compare that with the Skunk 2, at 302/258, and the Skunk2, which you consider fast, has a 44 degree difference.... Or, about half the ramp speed!

The exhaust is only 20 degrees difference, for a very agressive ramp, and is only .450 lift.

For some, that may seem like too much duration for a 12:1 setup.

More comparable to the stage 2's from the other manufacturer's, the Web Stage 2 Cams have a .050 duration of 259/252, but with a 20 degree spread on the intake, and 24 on the exhaust.... Still, far superior in ramp angle to the acclaimed Skunk2, and with a mild .455/.415 lift, it may prove very good for the application.

Again, just my .02</TD></TR></TABLE>

the op asked about the difference between crower and the pro2s

 

i just re-read your setup. you already have a great valvetrain & the rest of the motor. before you go and buy the pro2's i would look into why the last set broke? normally lack of oil is a great way to break cams. did you replace the dowel pin and seal in the center cam cap? check everything over when you tear the caps off & make sure you didn't forget something. i'm still on the fence with the pro1 stage 1 and stage 2. your motor could so go either direction. you might chat with skunk on what will happen with the two. i guess my only concern with the large profile is bleeding too much cylinder pressure and having a soggy midrange. i say this because you're a tad under 12:1 compression. maybe soggy is the wrong word, i doubt it will be soggy, it's more like what will be gained over the pro1s, sometimes it's like 2-3hp at the expense of having to rev the motor 3,4,500rpm higher to get it.


Modified by idrivesideways at 1:22 PM 9/20/2008

 

Well Skunk 2 claims it was an installer error and that ''if used properly these cam shafts are nearly indestructible". I change my oil every 2k miles just because I know what may happen if something goes wrong,it also informs me of leaks,or if oil is burning.

The motor is VERY solid, I threw in my Nitrided Gsr cams and they are holding up perfectly fine,of course a valve adjustment had to be done but none the less the motor is solid I just seem to have gotten a junk cam or something happened that can be seen.


Im going to do a compression test hopefully tonight so i can get an idea of what kinda compression I am working with.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by idrivesideways &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> before you go and buy the pro2's i would look into why the last set broke? normally lack of oil is a great way to break cams. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Who told you that?

Cams normally break from install error such as (but not limited to), Over tightening the cam caps, overtightening the cam bolts/gears, improper cam timing causing valve to piston contact, just to name a few. Lack of oil usually causes other major problems before it's responsible for breaking cams.