Temp guage indicates overcooling
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From: Ardmore, Pa, US
Temp guage indicates overcooling
Vehicle: 1994, Accord Ex, VTEC, AT
My temperature gauge indicates a slight overcooling at idle. I assume that is not normal. So, I tested the Dashboard Temperature Gauge and the Temperature Sending Unit, see Helms, p 23-126, both parts checked out ok. But, I have no red wire coming out of the electrical connector for the ECT Sending Unit. I only have a Yellow-Green wire.
Is the red wire thing a typo?
My temperature gauge indicates a slight overcooling at idle. I assume that is not normal. So, I tested the Dashboard Temperature Gauge and the Temperature Sending Unit, see Helms, p 23-126, both parts checked out ok. But, I have no red wire coming out of the electrical connector for the ECT Sending Unit. I only have a Yellow-Green wire.
Is the red wire thing a typo?
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From: Bouncing off of the city bus in Saigon
Re: Temp guage indicates overcooling (diyer)
even when fully warmed up, none of my hondas ever got above 1/3 on the guage and this includes my CLS
it is possible that the tstat is stuck slightly open, red might be for the year of car that they used....
it is possible that the tstat is stuck slightly open, red might be for the year of car that they used....
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From: Ardmore, Pa, US
Re: Temp guage indicates overcooling (YeuEmMaiMai)
My Helms Service Manual is specifically for 1994 not any other year. If the 1994 was the first year of the 5th gen, then the Manual is not going to be based on an ealrier or later year. 93 was 4th gen and a 95 manual would not have been out yet or even needed.
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From: Ardmore, Pa, US
Re: (TheMuffinMan)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TheMuffinMan »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What's "over cooling" where is the needle at, you never mentioned that at all. It should be approx halfway between the blue indicator and halfway mark.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well, your reply about the Mugen stat was help full to me. What hapenned with this answer? Seriously though, every owners manual or repair manual I have ever read says the temp gauge pointer should be in the middle of the gauge on a fully warmed up engine, not 1/3, not 3/4, not 1/4, not the bottom, not the top. But half way between top and bottom. In fact, my Honda owners manual says that the car might even go to the top white line in some circumstances and that is normal. There are 3 white lines and the top one is right next to the red H mark. To me that is an overheating condition.
If the top red H mark = 10 and the bottom blue L mark = 0, and the middle = 5, then I am at 4, definitely noticeable, not centered, and not just hair off. I need to get it back to spec, where it was before.
Whether it is actually overcooling, normal, or overheating, or the gauge is just off calibration, well that is what I need to determine. The gauge is what most people go by, and as long as it is working that is what it is for, so if it is telling the truth, then the car is overcooling. But that is the question, something is off or out of calibration somewhere. You might not think so, but your opinion doesn't count. The majority of the world and techs say something isn't right. That's why I posted to find intelligent answers. For now, I'm betting on the gauge having gotten messed up from a previous overheating. I'm starting to hear from people who have told me that is exactly what happened to them also.
Their cars overheated and the gauge never went back to normal even after the problem was fixed. I would bet that most of the people here at this board that think this is a normal gauge, are second owners and the former owner had overheated the car at one time. That is what Helms has clearly implied and stated about damaging the gauge, and we know that Helms seems to be the Honda Bible around here.
At any rate, halfway between the first two white lines is not where Honda has said the pointer should be. That's the premise and starting place. So, there is a reason for the deviation.
Modified by diyer at 10:29 AM 9/26/2008
Well, your reply about the Mugen stat was help full to me. What hapenned with this answer? Seriously though, every owners manual or repair manual I have ever read says the temp gauge pointer should be in the middle of the gauge on a fully warmed up engine, not 1/3, not 3/4, not 1/4, not the bottom, not the top. But half way between top and bottom. In fact, my Honda owners manual says that the car might even go to the top white line in some circumstances and that is normal. There are 3 white lines and the top one is right next to the red H mark. To me that is an overheating condition.
If the top red H mark = 10 and the bottom blue L mark = 0, and the middle = 5, then I am at 4, definitely noticeable, not centered, and not just hair off. I need to get it back to spec, where it was before.
Whether it is actually overcooling, normal, or overheating, or the gauge is just off calibration, well that is what I need to determine. The gauge is what most people go by, and as long as it is working that is what it is for, so if it is telling the truth, then the car is overcooling. But that is the question, something is off or out of calibration somewhere. You might not think so, but your opinion doesn't count. The majority of the world and techs say something isn't right. That's why I posted to find intelligent answers. For now, I'm betting on the gauge having gotten messed up from a previous overheating. I'm starting to hear from people who have told me that is exactly what happened to them also.
Their cars overheated and the gauge never went back to normal even after the problem was fixed. I would bet that most of the people here at this board that think this is a normal gauge, are second owners and the former owner had overheated the car at one time. That is what Helms has clearly implied and stated about damaging the gauge, and we know that Helms seems to be the Honda Bible around here.
At any rate, halfway between the first two white lines is not where Honda has said the pointer should be. That's the premise and starting place. So, there is a reason for the deviation.
Modified by diyer at 10:29 AM 9/26/2008
No, just no.
If your mark is 1/4th - 1/3rd of the way around the gauge, it is within spec and is fine. I'm not giving you my opinion, I'm giving you what every other Honda Accord owner has experienced. And no, the gauge has not been messed up - the 97 DX I own has never once in it's life been mistreated, overheated, always been maintained by Honda and guess what? Exact same position as always has been (1/4-1/3 of full)
Don't believe me? Take it to any Honda dealership and complain it's "overcooling"
Examples:
(read step 18)
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1802650
(last post)
https://honda-tech.com/zero...97599
There's obviously more, I'm lazy
Modified by TheMuffinMan at 4:26 PM 9/10/2008
If your mark is 1/4th - 1/3rd of the way around the gauge, it is within spec and is fine. I'm not giving you my opinion, I'm giving you what every other Honda Accord owner has experienced. And no, the gauge has not been messed up - the 97 DX I own has never once in it's life been mistreated, overheated, always been maintained by Honda and guess what? Exact same position as always has been (1/4-1/3 of full)
Don't believe me? Take it to any Honda dealership and complain it's "overcooling"
Examples:
(read step 18)
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1802650
(last post)
https://honda-tech.com/zero...97599
There's obviously more, I'm lazy
Modified by TheMuffinMan at 4:26 PM 9/10/2008
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2272275
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2357510
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2264274
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2227715
Shall I go on? Or am I not sober enough?
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2357510
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2264274
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2227715
Shall I go on? Or am I not sober enough?
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Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 278
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From: Los angeles, CA, USA
Re: (TheMuffinMan)
same here!
Mornings its always at about 1\4
when I drive for about an hour or more normal temp is at 1\3
when I fight crazy freeway traffic looking for parking for school its slightly above 1\3
frekin car almost hit me today......I just thought for a sec bye bye accord! My accords life flashed before my eyes
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From: cedar park, tx, usa
Re: (erk89)
ya sorry OP 1/4 - 1/3 is perfect.. also ya im second owner and i replaced my gauge and guess what still at 1/4 - 1/3, same with the "original gauge" before i fracked that up one day and had to replace with with a new gauge. Seems like your worried over nothing to me
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,878
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From: Fontanafredda, IT
Re: (Honda_Accord)
I agree with MuffinMan, but if you're THAT concerned about it, why not just hit the hoses with an infrared temp gun??
I've got "overcooling" issues of my own, but that's for another thread...
I've got "overcooling" issues of my own, but that's for another thread...
Thread Starter
* B A N N E D *
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From: Ardmore, Pa, US
Re: (TheMuffinMan)
[QUOTE=TheMuffinMan]No, just no. If your mark is 1/4th - 1/3rd of the way around the gauge, it is within spec and is fine. Examples:
(read step 18) https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1802650]
A: I see the pic in 18 showed where the gauge was. That is where my gauge is at. But that does not prove either one of us is correct. Perhaps both of our cars have a problem. And we may both have a different problem. And maybe neither one of us has a problem. But what is worse is that you referred me to a pic of an Accord that is not even a 94. I doubt it is even a VTEC within the 94-94, M/Y. Your just going to have to do more than this. And all those other web addresses, that is just other peoples opinions. There were no pics, or anything affirmative listed. But, calm down, although there isn't anything that YOU have said that has led me to believe you, for now I am accepting it anyway. I did call Honda and they said it should be around the middle, and might not be exactly on the white line, and maybe more than a hair off, and still be normal. I told them I was at # 4 to 4.5, on the temp gauge, where a # 5 would be dead even (2nd white line). They told me the pointer could be there and be normal, or it could be there and have a problem, overcooling or even overheating, if the gauge was out of calibration. I know what other things to look at and check to see if the temps are within range.
However, you have made me aware of another issue -- this placing your Accord under a 3,000 rpm load, everytime you reconnect the battery. Helms does not say anything about that, so I'm not doing it I have both the Haynes and Helms manuals, and I recently found one of them to be in error when testing relays. I posted here asking which manual was in error, and everyone said the Haynes is a POS to ignore it and that Helms was correct. Where is Helms does it say that. It seems to me that what happens here is this clique thing where you guys stick up for each other even of your wrong. Now which is it Helms or Haynes and stop the bigoted political board oriented answers. Your making me distrust what your saying. On one hand, ya'll say ignore Haynes, then you change up, because I disagreed with a board member and now your citing Haynes with this 3k rpm.
I called Honda about this and they say I do not need to do this - period
(read step 18) https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1802650]
A: I see the pic in 18 showed where the gauge was. That is where my gauge is at. But that does not prove either one of us is correct. Perhaps both of our cars have a problem. And we may both have a different problem. And maybe neither one of us has a problem. But what is worse is that you referred me to a pic of an Accord that is not even a 94. I doubt it is even a VTEC within the 94-94, M/Y. Your just going to have to do more than this. And all those other web addresses, that is just other peoples opinions. There were no pics, or anything affirmative listed. But, calm down, although there isn't anything that YOU have said that has led me to believe you, for now I am accepting it anyway. I did call Honda and they said it should be around the middle, and might not be exactly on the white line, and maybe more than a hair off, and still be normal. I told them I was at # 4 to 4.5, on the temp gauge, where a # 5 would be dead even (2nd white line). They told me the pointer could be there and be normal, or it could be there and have a problem, overcooling or even overheating, if the gauge was out of calibration. I know what other things to look at and check to see if the temps are within range.
However, you have made me aware of another issue -- this placing your Accord under a 3,000 rpm load, everytime you reconnect the battery. Helms does not say anything about that, so I'm not doing it I have both the Haynes and Helms manuals, and I recently found one of them to be in error when testing relays. I posted here asking which manual was in error, and everyone said the Haynes is a POS to ignore it and that Helms was correct. Where is Helms does it say that. It seems to me that what happens here is this clique thing where you guys stick up for each other even of your wrong. Now which is it Helms or Haynes and stop the bigoted political board oriented answers. Your making me distrust what your saying. On one hand, ya'll say ignore Haynes, then you change up, because I disagreed with a board member and now your citing Haynes with this 3k rpm.
I called Honda about this and they say I do not need to do this - period
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From: somewhere in MI
Re: (diyer)
oy, this is starting to remind of the stop leak thread.......
In my personal experience my Honda's have always read around the 1/3 mark, never up the half mark. When I replaced my t-stat in my 95 EX with an OEM unit the needle position remained the same. When I replaced the t-stat in my Civic the needle was a little lower on the gauge but still right about 1/3. In fact, if I ever saw my temp needle ever go to half on the gauge I would think something was wrong.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by diyer »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">However, you have made me aware of another issue -- this placing your Accord under a 3,000 rpm load, everytime you reconnect the battery. Helms does not say anything about that, so I'm not doing it I have both the Haynes and Helms manuals, and I recently found one of them to be in error when testing relays. I posted here asking which manual was in error, and everyone said the Haynes is a POS to ignore it and that Helms was correct. Where is Helms does it say that. It seems to me that what happens here is this clique thing where you guys stick up for each other even of your wrong. Now which is it Helms or Haynes and stop the bigoted political board oriented answers. Your making me distrust what your saying. On one hand, ya'll say ignore Haynes, then you change up, because I disagreed with a board member and now your citing Haynes with this 3k rpm.
I called Honda about this and they say I do not need to do this - period</TD></TR></TABLE>
whow whow whow.... where did that come from? What did I miss?
But to answer you question(s)... I will always trust my Helm manual over a haynes/chiltons. I never hold my rpm's at 3k after reconnecting my battery.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by diyer »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> You might not think so, but your opinion doesn't count. The majority of the world and techs say something isn't right. That's why I posted to find intelligent answers. For now, I'm betting on the gauge having gotten messed up from a previous overheating. I'm starting to hear from people who have told me that is exactly what happened to them also.
Their cars overheated and the gauge never went back to normal even after the problem was fixed. I would bet that most of the people here at this board that think this is a normal gauge, are second owners and the former owner had overheated the car at one time. That is what Helms has clearly implied and stated about damaging the gauge, and we know that Helms seems to be the Honda Bible around here. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I don't understand why you come off as being so abrasive at times. Saying someones opinion doesn't count is....
You say the majority of the world and techs say something is wrong? Can you support this claim?
As for the car over heating and causing damage to the gauge, that's definitely a possibility as it sounds plausible but even you can admit that it would be hard to accept that the majority of this board (or so it seems) have damaged gauges from their car over heating during some point of it's life. I can't disprove it and it even sounds possible but like I said, it's hard to believe that everyone that has or is saying their gauges read around 1/3 are because of this.
In my personal experience my Honda's have always read around the 1/3 mark, never up the half mark. When I replaced my t-stat in my 95 EX with an OEM unit the needle position remained the same. When I replaced the t-stat in my Civic the needle was a little lower on the gauge but still right about 1/3. In fact, if I ever saw my temp needle ever go to half on the gauge I would think something was wrong.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by diyer »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">However, you have made me aware of another issue -- this placing your Accord under a 3,000 rpm load, everytime you reconnect the battery. Helms does not say anything about that, so I'm not doing it I have both the Haynes and Helms manuals, and I recently found one of them to be in error when testing relays. I posted here asking which manual was in error, and everyone said the Haynes is a POS to ignore it and that Helms was correct. Where is Helms does it say that. It seems to me that what happens here is this clique thing where you guys stick up for each other even of your wrong. Now which is it Helms or Haynes and stop the bigoted political board oriented answers. Your making me distrust what your saying. On one hand, ya'll say ignore Haynes, then you change up, because I disagreed with a board member and now your citing Haynes with this 3k rpm.
I called Honda about this and they say I do not need to do this - period</TD></TR></TABLE>
whow whow whow.... where did that come from? What did I miss?
But to answer you question(s)... I will always trust my Helm manual over a haynes/chiltons. I never hold my rpm's at 3k after reconnecting my battery.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by diyer »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> You might not think so, but your opinion doesn't count. The majority of the world and techs say something isn't right. That's why I posted to find intelligent answers. For now, I'm betting on the gauge having gotten messed up from a previous overheating. I'm starting to hear from people who have told me that is exactly what happened to them also.
Their cars overheated and the gauge never went back to normal even after the problem was fixed. I would bet that most of the people here at this board that think this is a normal gauge, are second owners and the former owner had overheated the car at one time. That is what Helms has clearly implied and stated about damaging the gauge, and we know that Helms seems to be the Honda Bible around here. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I don't understand why you come off as being so abrasive at times. Saying someones opinion doesn't count is....
You say the majority of the world and techs say something is wrong? Can you support this claim?
As for the car over heating and causing damage to the gauge, that's definitely a possibility as it sounds plausible but even you can admit that it would be hard to accept that the majority of this board (or so it seems) have damaged gauges from their car over heating during some point of it's life. I can't disprove it and it even sounds possible but like I said, it's hard to believe that everyone that has or is saying their gauges read around 1/3 are because of this.
Re: (diyer)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by diyer »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">[QUOTE=TheMuffinMan]No, just no. If your mark is 1/4th - 1/3rd of the way around the gauge, it is within spec and is fine. Examples:
(read step 18) https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1802650]
A: I see the pic in 18 showed where the gauge was. That is where my gauge is at. But that does not prove either one of us is correct. Perhaps both of our cars have a problem. And we may both have a different problem. And maybe neither one of us has a problem. But what is worse is that you referred me to a pic of an Accord that is not even a 94. I doubt it is even a VTEC within the 94-94, M/Y. Your just going to have to do more than this. And all those other web addresses, that is just other peoples opinions. There were no pics, or anything affirmative listed. But, calm down, although there isn't anything that YOU have said that has led me to believe you, for now I am accepting it anyway. I did call Honda and they said it should be around the middle, and might not be exactly on the white line, and maybe more than a hair off, and still be normal. I told them I was at # 4 to 4.5, on the temp gauge, where a # 5 would be dead even (2nd white line). They told me the pointer could be there and be normal, or it could be there and have a problem, overcooling or even overheating, if the gauge was out of calibration. I know what other things to look at and check to see if the temps are within range.
However, you have made me aware of another issue -- this placing your Accord under a 3,000 rpm load, everytime you reconnect the battery. Helms does not say anything about that, so I'm not doing it I have both the Haynes and Helms manuals, and I recently found one of them to be in error when testing relays. I posted here asking which manual was in error, and everyone said the Haynes is a POS to ignore it and that Helms was correct. Where is Helms does it say that. It seems to me that what happens here is this clique thing where you guys stick up for each other even of your wrong. Now which is it Helms or Haynes and stop the bigoted political board oriented answers. Your making me distrust what your saying. On one hand, ya'll say ignore Haynes, then you change up, because I disagreed with a board member and now your citing Haynes with this 3k rpm.
I called Honda about this and they say I do not need to do this - period</TD></TR></TABLE>
That specific bit is relevant to a newer Civic, NOT an Accord, I was referring solely to the temp gauge level.
What seems more likely? 200 billion million people telling you that the temperature sits at that point and always has, or your stubbornness (I'm guess stemming from your age of 50) calling all of our opinions/experiences flat out wrong but putting yours on a pedestal?
I'm telling you in my 2 Accords I own, it's always been like that, you have multiple other people in the thread saying that, you have all the threads I listed with people telling you that - what more do you need?
How about you
1) Find the standard operating temp of the motor/etc
2) Buy a laser temp thing
3) Warm up the car to the 1/4 to 1/3 level
4) Shoot the laser at it
I'm going to wager $2,000,000,000,000 that it's within spec (+/- 10o)
Modified by TouringAccord at 8:45 AM 9/12/2008
(read step 18) https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1802650]
A: I see the pic in 18 showed where the gauge was. That is where my gauge is at. But that does not prove either one of us is correct. Perhaps both of our cars have a problem. And we may both have a different problem. And maybe neither one of us has a problem. But what is worse is that you referred me to a pic of an Accord that is not even a 94. I doubt it is even a VTEC within the 94-94, M/Y. Your just going to have to do more than this. And all those other web addresses, that is just other peoples opinions. There were no pics, or anything affirmative listed. But, calm down, although there isn't anything that YOU have said that has led me to believe you, for now I am accepting it anyway. I did call Honda and they said it should be around the middle, and might not be exactly on the white line, and maybe more than a hair off, and still be normal. I told them I was at # 4 to 4.5, on the temp gauge, where a # 5 would be dead even (2nd white line). They told me the pointer could be there and be normal, or it could be there and have a problem, overcooling or even overheating, if the gauge was out of calibration. I know what other things to look at and check to see if the temps are within range.
However, you have made me aware of another issue -- this placing your Accord under a 3,000 rpm load, everytime you reconnect the battery. Helms does not say anything about that, so I'm not doing it I have both the Haynes and Helms manuals, and I recently found one of them to be in error when testing relays. I posted here asking which manual was in error, and everyone said the Haynes is a POS to ignore it and that Helms was correct. Where is Helms does it say that. It seems to me that what happens here is this clique thing where you guys stick up for each other even of your wrong. Now which is it Helms or Haynes and stop the bigoted political board oriented answers. Your making me distrust what your saying. On one hand, ya'll say ignore Haynes, then you change up, because I disagreed with a board member and now your citing Haynes with this 3k rpm.
I called Honda about this and they say I do not need to do this - period</TD></TR></TABLE>
That specific bit is relevant to a newer Civic, NOT an Accord, I was referring solely to the temp gauge level.
What seems more likely? 200 billion million people telling you that the temperature sits at that point and always has, or your stubbornness (I'm guess stemming from your age of 50) calling all of our opinions/experiences flat out wrong but putting yours on a pedestal?
I'm telling you in my 2 Accords I own, it's always been like that, you have multiple other people in the thread saying that, you have all the threads I listed with people telling you that - what more do you need?
How about you
1) Find the standard operating temp of the motor/etc
2) Buy a laser temp thing
3) Warm up the car to the 1/4 to 1/3 level
4) Shoot the laser at it
I'm going to wager $2,000,000,000,000 that it's within spec (+/- 10o)
Modified by TouringAccord at 8:45 AM 9/12/2008
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From: somewhere in MI
Re: (radiuslight)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by radiuslight »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No fudge stop leak not only does it mess up cars it also messes up forum threads
God Damn that $#!7 is from hell!!
</TD></TR></TABLE>
sorry to have brought it up, lets not let that distract from this thread
God Damn that $#!7 is from hell!!
</TD></TR></TABLE>sorry to have brought it up, lets not let that distract from this thread
Thread Starter
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From: Ardmore, Pa, US
Re: (TouringAccord)
[QUOTE=TouringAccord] ... In my personal experience, my Honda's have always read around the 1/3 mark, never up the half mark ... (partially deleted) ... In fact, if I ever saw my temp needle ever go to half on the gauge I would think something was wrong.
Diyer: I spoke to the dealerships and they think its ok. They didn't seem to think that all 94 Hondas run under the second white mark, just some, and didn't have a clue why. So, I accept that is your experience. I think the pointer on my Honda is higher than yours, so maybe I'm running hot!?
[QUOTE=TouringAccord] whow whow whow.... where did that come from? What did I miss? But to answer you question(s)... I will always trust my Helm manual over a haynes/chiltons. I never hold my rpm's at 3k after reconnecting my battery.
Diyer: Step 18 that Muffin told me to read.
[QUOTE=TouringAccord] I don't understand why you come off as being so abrasive at times. Saying someones opinion doesn't count is.
Diyer: Oh, I just meant and forgot to say that it was my opinion that mattered in the end. A bunch of local guys were saying something was wrong if I wasnt reaching full temps. Not every Honda owner or Dealership tells me that same thing when I ask questions. So, I just wasnt' going to listen to some stranger on the net, sorry. I didn't mean it quite like it read. Read the next paragraph also.
Diyer: Muffin man originally said this: <TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> "What's "over cooling" where is the needle at, you never mentioned that at all. It should be approx halfway between the blue indicator and halfway mark." [end quote]. If someone who is going to advise me on automotive work isn't familiar with the basic concept of "Overcooling" then why should I take their opinion on anything else, and you see he didn't offer anykind of backup for his position, no website, no proof, no logical explanation, nothing except it should be where he says it should be. Finally when he tried to prove it, it was nothing more than other discussions about other issues, and I think some posts were more about overheating. My Honda Owners Manual is at least somewhat of a trustworthy source. Helms does not seem to address the subject, but often the general repair manuals will say it should be in the middle. And every car I have ever been in that operated normally, had the pointer in the middle of the gauge. So, actually there was far more evidence against what this guy claimed than what he was claiming. In fact, even now that the delarships have told me that it is "around" the middle - THAT is not 1/4 to 1/3, so I accept that is what you guys are seeing, but that is not what I am seeing. So we are evidently talking about something different in the end anyway.
[QUOTE=TouringAccord] You say the majority of the world and techs say something is wrong? Can you support this claim?
Diyer: I made lots of calls and just about every mechanic told me that all the temp gauges they looked at run in the middle, as long as they have no other problems.
[QUOTE=TouringAccord] As for the car over heating and causing damage to the gauge, that's definitely a possibility as it sounds plausible but even you can admit that it would be hard to accept that the majority of this board (or so it seems) have damaged gauges from their car over heating during some point of it's life. I can't disprove it and it even sounds possible but like I said, it's hard to believe that everyone that has or is saying their gauges read around 1/3 are because of this. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Diyer: Yes, I agree, it seems overreaching. I thought it might be possible if they purchased their cars used. I read some disturbing data years ago, that there were far more damaged vehicles from overheating that were sealed up with stop leaks and then resold without any mention of the overheating, than the public realized. Mechanics have told me it is next to impossible to detect that when buying a used car. That was my line of thinking on that issue. Now, if anyone got their Honda new and it has been like that from day one, then that supports the other answers.
Diyer: I spoke to the dealerships and they think its ok. They didn't seem to think that all 94 Hondas run under the second white mark, just some, and didn't have a clue why. So, I accept that is your experience. I think the pointer on my Honda is higher than yours, so maybe I'm running hot!?
[QUOTE=TouringAccord] whow whow whow.... where did that come from? What did I miss? But to answer you question(s)... I will always trust my Helm manual over a haynes/chiltons. I never hold my rpm's at 3k after reconnecting my battery.
Diyer: Step 18 that Muffin told me to read.
[QUOTE=TouringAccord] I don't understand why you come off as being so abrasive at times. Saying someones opinion doesn't count is.
Diyer: Oh, I just meant and forgot to say that it was my opinion that mattered in the end. A bunch of local guys were saying something was wrong if I wasnt reaching full temps. Not every Honda owner or Dealership tells me that same thing when I ask questions. So, I just wasnt' going to listen to some stranger on the net, sorry. I didn't mean it quite like it read. Read the next paragraph also.
Diyer: Muffin man originally said this: <TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> "What's "over cooling" where is the needle at, you never mentioned that at all. It should be approx halfway between the blue indicator and halfway mark." [end quote]. If someone who is going to advise me on automotive work isn't familiar with the basic concept of "Overcooling" then why should I take their opinion on anything else, and you see he didn't offer anykind of backup for his position, no website, no proof, no logical explanation, nothing except it should be where he says it should be. Finally when he tried to prove it, it was nothing more than other discussions about other issues, and I think some posts were more about overheating. My Honda Owners Manual is at least somewhat of a trustworthy source. Helms does not seem to address the subject, but often the general repair manuals will say it should be in the middle. And every car I have ever been in that operated normally, had the pointer in the middle of the gauge. So, actually there was far more evidence against what this guy claimed than what he was claiming. In fact, even now that the delarships have told me that it is "around" the middle - THAT is not 1/4 to 1/3, so I accept that is what you guys are seeing, but that is not what I am seeing. So we are evidently talking about something different in the end anyway.
[QUOTE=TouringAccord] You say the majority of the world and techs say something is wrong? Can you support this claim?
Diyer: I made lots of calls and just about every mechanic told me that all the temp gauges they looked at run in the middle, as long as they have no other problems.
[QUOTE=TouringAccord] As for the car over heating and causing damage to the gauge, that's definitely a possibility as it sounds plausible but even you can admit that it would be hard to accept that the majority of this board (or so it seems) have damaged gauges from their car over heating during some point of it's life. I can't disprove it and it even sounds possible but like I said, it's hard to believe that everyone that has or is saying their gauges read around 1/3 are because of this. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Diyer: Yes, I agree, it seems overreaching. I thought it might be possible if they purchased their cars used. I read some disturbing data years ago, that there were far more damaged vehicles from overheating that were sealed up with stop leaks and then resold without any mention of the overheating, than the public realized. Mechanics have told me it is next to impossible to detect that when buying a used car. That was my line of thinking on that issue. Now, if anyone got their Honda new and it has been like that from day one, then that supports the other answers.
Thread Starter
* B A N N E D *
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 273
Likes: 0
From: Ardmore, Pa, US
Re: (AFAccord)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AFAccord »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">. ... if you're THAT concerned about it, why not just hit the hoses with an infrared temp gun?? ... </TD></TR></TABLE>
B E C A U S E Honda specs are based on internal engine temps [180F], and using a temp gun on the outside is not going to tell me where the temp is. Its always going to be cooler on the outside.
B E C A U S E Honda specs are based on internal engine temps [180F], and using a temp gun on the outside is not going to tell me where the temp is. Its always going to be cooler on the outside.
Thread Starter
* B A N N E D *
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 273
Likes: 0
From: Ardmore, Pa, US
Re: (TheMuffinMan)
[QUOTE=TheMuffinMan]What seems more likely? 200 billion million people telling you that the temperature sits at that point and always has ... I'm telling you in my 2 Accords I own, it's always been like that, you have multiple other people in the thread saying that, you have all the threads I listed with people telling you that - what more do you need? [QUOTE]
Diyer: Nothing. And in fact, according to you and all these other owners, then there is actually something wrong with this accord. I thought it was overcooling, but in fact, it is overheating, based upon where you are tellling me the gauge needle normally goes for a normal running Accord without any cooling system issues. So, your right, the vehicle is not overcooling - its overheating, but it took this discussion to figure that out.
[QUOTE=TheMuffinMan]How about you
1) Find the standard operating temp of the motor/etc
2) Buy a laser temp thing
3) Warm up the car to the 1/4 to 1/3 level
4) Shoot the laser at it[QUOTE]
Diyer: I don't own a laser gun. I have an infrared temp gun, though. But regardless, neither gun will tell you the internal engine temp. It will only tell you the external temp, which is always going to be cooler. I wish there was an easy way to get the internal runnign temp. Perhaps I could run a temp probe wire into the T-stat housing area and see where it is runnign at, without too much of a coolant leak - never tried that though. Anyone ever do that?
[QUOTE=TheMuffinMan]I'm going to wager $2,000,000,000,000 that it's within spec (+/- 10o).[QUOTE]
Diyer: Actually, it is not within spec according to you and the other Accord owners. It is overheating. My gauge is almost to the middle white mark.
Diyer: Nothing. And in fact, according to you and all these other owners, then there is actually something wrong with this accord. I thought it was overcooling, but in fact, it is overheating, based upon where you are tellling me the gauge needle normally goes for a normal running Accord without any cooling system issues. So, your right, the vehicle is not overcooling - its overheating, but it took this discussion to figure that out.
[QUOTE=TheMuffinMan]How about you
1) Find the standard operating temp of the motor/etc
2) Buy a laser temp thing
3) Warm up the car to the 1/4 to 1/3 level
4) Shoot the laser at it[QUOTE]
Diyer: I don't own a laser gun. I have an infrared temp gun, though. But regardless, neither gun will tell you the internal engine temp. It will only tell you the external temp, which is always going to be cooler. I wish there was an easy way to get the internal runnign temp. Perhaps I could run a temp probe wire into the T-stat housing area and see where it is runnign at, without too much of a coolant leak - never tried that though. Anyone ever do that?
[QUOTE=TheMuffinMan]I'm going to wager $2,000,000,000,000 that it's within spec (+/- 10o).[QUOTE]
Diyer: Actually, it is not within spec according to you and the other Accord owners. It is overheating. My gauge is almost to the middle white mark.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,878
Likes: 2
From: Fontanafredda, IT
Re: (diyer)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by diyer »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">B E C A U S E Honda specs are based on internal engine temps [180F], and using a temp gun on the outside is not going to tell me where the temp is. Its always going to be cooler on the outside. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Ignorance strikes again! The the engine temp is just calculated from resistance. An IR temp gun is going to be more accurate than an over-priced resistor any day, and reading the temp through less than 3/16" of rubber isn't going to skew the reading.
Ignorance strikes again! The the engine temp is just calculated from resistance. An IR temp gun is going to be more accurate than an over-priced resistor any day, and reading the temp through less than 3/16" of rubber isn't going to skew the reading.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,262
Likes: 5
From: Reppin The 905
Re: (diyer)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by diyer »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Diyer: I don't own a laser gun. I have an infrared temp gun, though. But regardless, neither gun will tell you the internal engine temp. It will only tell you the external temp, which is always going to be cooler. I wish there was an easy way to get the internal runnign temp. Perhaps I could run a temp probe wire into the T-stat housing area and see where it is runnign at, without too much of a coolant leak - never tried that though. Anyone ever do that?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Are you retarded? Yes, engineers have been doing that for years. Its call a COOLANT TEMP SENSOR. Its located on water neck on the front of the engine.
So, are you a part time wanna be mechanic? or a full time moron? Gauges dont go out of calibration because the engine over heats, thats just stupid. The engine temp has no affect on the gauge itself, as its not the engine that is connected to it, its the ETS unit that gives the gauge its signal voltage. If you have a helms, why not look at the wiring diagram for it.
Although, I must say, I EL OH EL'd pretty hard when you suggested that pretty much everybody on here has purchased an accord that has overheated at one time or another.
You sir are a moron. May I suggest you go drink bleach and play in traffic for a new hobby? Cause it seems that cars arent your thing.
Diyer: I don't own a laser gun. I have an infrared temp gun, though. But regardless, neither gun will tell you the internal engine temp. It will only tell you the external temp, which is always going to be cooler. I wish there was an easy way to get the internal runnign temp. Perhaps I could run a temp probe wire into the T-stat housing area and see where it is runnign at, without too much of a coolant leak - never tried that though. Anyone ever do that?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Are you retarded? Yes, engineers have been doing that for years. Its call a COOLANT TEMP SENSOR. Its located on water neck on the front of the engine.
So, are you a part time wanna be mechanic? or a full time moron? Gauges dont go out of calibration because the engine over heats, thats just stupid. The engine temp has no affect on the gauge itself, as its not the engine that is connected to it, its the ETS unit that gives the gauge its signal voltage. If you have a helms, why not look at the wiring diagram for it.
Although, I must say, I EL OH EL'd pretty hard when you suggested that pretty much everybody on here has purchased an accord that has overheated at one time or another.
You sir are a moron. May I suggest you go drink bleach and play in traffic for a new hobby? Cause it seems that cars arent your thing.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,262
Likes: 5
From: Reppin The 905
Re: (TheMuffinMan)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TheMuffinMan »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm not supposed to respond to his threads
He(diyer) asked me to.</TD></TR></TABLE>
the guy is a tool, 'nuff said.
i dont come on here often, but i miss the og crew. some of the ppl here make me wonder about society
He(diyer) asked me to.</TD></TR></TABLE>
the guy is a tool, 'nuff said.
i dont come on here often, but i miss the og crew. some of the ppl here make me wonder about society
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
From: oakland, ca, USA
Re: (JDM_DC4_Fanatic)
hehehe, overcooling, hehehe
maybe he's owned a dodge.
those temp gauges seem to hover at more like 50%
honda's just engineer a superior project, some models cool better than others. I'd say overall accord's are one of the best. Mine did overheat once, but that was from the water pump saying farewell. Had it on the side of the freeway by about 50% on the gauge, since anything over 33% on the gauge would surprise me.
maybe he's owned a dodge.
those temp gauges seem to hover at more like 50%
honda's just engineer a superior project, some models cool better than others. I'd say overall accord's are one of the best. Mine did overheat once, but that was from the water pump saying farewell. Had it on the side of the freeway by about 50% on the gauge, since anything over 33% on the gauge would surprise me.
Thread Starter
* B A N N E D *
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 273
Likes: 0
From: Ardmore, Pa, US
Re: (AFAccord)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AFAccord »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Ignorance strikes again!
Diyer: Yes it does and the ignorance is yours.
The the engine temp is just calculated from resistance. An IR temp gun is going to be more accurate than an over-priced resistor any day, and reading the temp through less than 3/16" of rubber isn't going to skew the reading</TD></TR></TABLE>
Diyer: That's not what the mfr of the IR gun claims.
Diyer: Yes it does and the ignorance is yours. I never said a word about a resistor. The internal engine temp is regulated by the mechanical thermostat and it is independent of other parts and is not controlled by them, Are you a teenage ricer?
Diyer: Yes it does and the ignorance is yours.
The the engine temp is just calculated from resistance. An IR temp gun is going to be more accurate than an over-priced resistor any day, and reading the temp through less than 3/16" of rubber isn't going to skew the reading</TD></TR></TABLE>
Diyer: That's not what the mfr of the IR gun claims.
Diyer: Yes it does and the ignorance is yours. I never said a word about a resistor. The internal engine temp is regulated by the mechanical thermostat and it is independent of other parts and is not controlled by them, Are you a teenage ricer?