HI everyone, this post is a review of a wing that I have been working on for quite some time. It is a little late in coming for two reasons, one my work has been very difficult lately,, and second , my initial test did not get the results I wanted .

Before fully reviewing I wanted another driver with a different chassis to run it. Edo from H4 was in need of a wing for the nationals , so he was able to test before leaving.

OK,, I went to Willow for the weekend of Aug 10th. It is a high speed track. I tested using my H2 EG hatch. The car was high speed loose and low speed mild push before the wing.

I used the wing in full wide configuration (58 inches) I set the wing at an initial 4 degrees of angle of attack.

Right away the high speed loose was gone, the rear could previously be felt lifting and "tilting over " in turns . This was gone . The only problem was that i now was lacking the rotation that made this car so fast.

Back to the pits , i went to adjust the wing to a lower angle , and low and behold the wing had "pushed " itself down in the slotted mounts to the full low angle position!!! I know I had everything tight, so i thought ,,wow this thing is making some downforce!!!

Ok, next session, did some alighnment changes to loosen the car up , then a spring change, then more alighnment changes. Still the rear was too planted.

The wing was just making too much downforce for my chassis. ( around 120lbs ) Also my mountings would not allow less than 2 degree angle of attack ( i didnt imagine i would need less ) I believe that with a significantly less wide wing , and the ability for less angle of attack, the wing would work well.

I think that the EG chassis allows the wing to see really clean air , with that in mind my next test will be using a 34 inch wing mounted to the roof at the rain gutters with extended endplates ( kind of like an EVO ) This should make even less drag and give me the proper amount of downforce

Next was Edo to test. He is preparing for the nationals , and doesnt have time to mess around. He explained to me that his car was crazy loose without a wing, and needed some real downforce on his TEG. He fabed up some custom mounts that were about 8 inches high and went to test at Buttonwillow.

Edo's test went very well!!!! He ended up using a 4 degree angle ( the wing comes with a gauge te properly measure the angle so there is no guessing ) He tried 6 degreees and got some push , tried 2 degrees and it was loose. I couldnt ask for a better test and Edo won his class.

Now he is on the way to the nats, we will see how it does there

Edo has been nonstop busy with work and prep for the nats but promised he will give up a review when time permits.

Thanks to Jeff Owen and Afterhours performance for their help .

I will post pics later and if anyone is at the Nats , check out Edo's car and tell me what you think

Thanks

R

 

Great review. Iv been waiting for you and Jeff f to finish up the wing setup for the eg. Im currently running Brian @ PC-I's wing mounts but those are definitely illegal for HC. So i was looking for an alternative mounting location that was legal and Jeff told me that guys were coming up with some stuff in the coming weeks. Goodluck to everyone going to nationals!

 

Very cool Renan, you going to Buttonwillow next event? Hope to see you there.

 

Thanks!!,

im planning to be there, it looks like I will be just getting back from a trip, so im not sure how prepared I will be

 

Good Report Renan.
As we discussed, I think we will have to build the same wing, but proportionally smaller for the Civc's.
I'm sure the first prototype will be fine for the bigger and possibly more powerfull DC Integra's. I had intended to test the Prototype on my #65 DC2 K-20 Integra on September 20-21 at California Speedway ... So look after it Edo It's the only one in existance! Hopefully I can get another out of the Mold before my Test day.
We will be doing further testing of our new GEAR-X K-20 Close Ratio Gear Kit which was worth 3 seconds to me at Buttonwillow so I'm sure a little extra downforce on the rear will be a good thing at Cali Speedway.
Good luck to all the P1Spec users at the Nationals...

Kiwi

 

Any report on the change in straight line speed with/without the wing?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris F &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Any report on the change in straight line speed with/without the wing?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I dont have anything accurate relating to straightline speed . The data shows the wing should only create around 6lbs of drag around 120mph. So the straight line speed should not be affected much at all.

To answer your question accurately though , my mph was down with the wing ON at almost every straight . This was mainly due to my lower corner exit speed.

Are you running a wing Chris? How different is your car with and without? Im curious as to how dramatic of a change it is on different chassis

Thanks

R

 

If you and Jeff get the urge to try it on my coupe let me know I am curious to compare with my existing wing and data.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JuanTushag &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Are you running a wing Chris? How different is your car with and without? Im curious as to how dramatic of a change it is on different chassis
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I am not, but have been considering it since my straight line speed is fine, but braking at 130 MPH sucks (it's a nervous braker) and high speed corners I'm a little loose.

-Chris

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JuanTushag &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I dont have anything accurate relating to straightline speed . The data shows the wing should only create around 6lbs of drag around 120mph. So the straight line speed should not be affected much at all.

To answer your question accurately though , my mph was down with the wing ON at almost every straight . This was mainly due to my lower corner exit speed.

Are you running a wing Chris? How different is your car with and without? Im curious as to how dramatic of a change it is on different chassis

Thanks

R

</TD></TR></TABLE>

What is the final price (even ballpark) going to be for the wing including mounting brackets?

 

Not as much as yours Just kidding, totally just kidding!!!!

Once this testing is complete its all going to Kiwi for production and sales. The idea was to make it affordable ( around 3 -5 hundred bucks ) , but I dont know . The quality part of the equasion gets expensive.

But man just the cost of getting a prototype out there cost 5 times what I thought it would. I have over $1000 getting that first one out And that does not include the cost of that computer program, or my time.

Jeeze, had I known it would be so much work/money, I would have just bought yours!!!!!

I dont think there is any real money to be made in this. I just wanted to bring out a functional product with the included set up data, something that i had not seen offered before. Jonny you have seen it more that me, wings out there that no one knows how much downforce/drag they create or what or how to determine an angle of attack for the wing.


Jonny what kind of money did you spend making yours,? Im sure it was up there too.

For thoes that dont know ( i didnt untill i recently had dinner with him ) J-mac is not only educated in aerodynamics, he works as an engineer for a helicopter company. He was able to explain thigs to me that previously I had no idea. ( some complex aerodynamic theory, application , how to read some of the complex computer data, shaving my legs ,,,etc ). And he is fast!!! So i have learned to listen to him

R

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JuanTushag &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Not as much as yours Just kidding, totally just kidding!!!!

Once this testing is complete its all going to Kiwi for production and sales. The idea was to make it affordable ( around 3 -5 hundred bucks ) , but I dont know . The quality part of the equasion gets expensive.

But man just the cost of getting a prototype out there cost 5 times what I thought it would. I have over $1000 getting that first one out And that does not include the cost of that computer program, or my time.

Jeeze, had I known it would be so much work/money, I would have just bought yours!!!!!

I dont think there is any real money to be made in this. I just wanted to bring out a functional product with the included set up data, something that i had not seen offered before. Jonny you have seen it more that me, wings out there that no one knows how much downforce/drag they create or what or how to determine an angle of attack for the wing.


Jonny what kind of money did you spend making yours,? Im sure it was up there too.

For thoes that dont know ( i didnt untill i recently had dinner with him ) J-mac is not only educated in aerodynamics, he works as an engineer for a helicopter company. He was able to explain thigs to me that previously I had no idea. ( some complex aerodynamic theory, application , how to read some of the complex computer data, shaving my legs ,,,etc ). And he is fast!!! So i have learned to listen to him

R

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, making pre-preg carbon wings is expensive. I have $6700 in the tooling and the pattern wing alone. The tooling is high-temp carbon so that it is strong and will hold up to the heat and stresses involved in the vacuum bagging and curing process. Each wing costs me more than what you have listed as probable cost of your wing. So like you said, it is very difficult to make money in the manufacturing of wings. I think to only way to make money is to consult with professional motorsport teams in areas of wind tunnel and track testing and then the wings just become a carrot.

I should just go into windmill design if I wanted to make a living as an aerodynamicist - since I don't really want to move to England to work in real motorsports.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Johnny Mac &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I should just go into windmill design if I wanted to make a living as an aerodynamicist - since I don't really want to move to England to work in real motorsports.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Oh really. I have been involved with windmill design for a while now, here is a video of a windmill I designed in action. Note , it runs like I drive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nSB1SdVHqQ

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JuanTushag &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Oh really. I have been involved with windmill design for a while now, here is a video of a windmill I designed in action. Note , it runs like I drive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nSB1SdVHqQ
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Wow, that is pretty catastrophic.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JuanTushag &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I dont have anything accurate relating to straightline speed . The data shows the wing should only create around 6lbs of drag around 120mph. So the straight line speed should not be affected much at all.

To answer your question accurately though , my mph was down with the wing ON at almost every straight . This was mainly due to my lower corner exit speed. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Any reason why your corner exit speed was lower with the wing?

Performing coast down test and relating it to your drag calculations would be a more controlled way to validate your calculations rather than gathering on track data . But lap times are the ultimate decider. What sort of improvements were you seeing?

 

HI *****, I think you missed the first post where I described that my initial test on my EG hatch did not go as well as planned . The wing produced so much downforce that it caused a push . Without the ability to rotate the car properly, my exit speed was slow.

The same wing later went on to a very sucessfull test on a integra ( the wing is now at the NASA nationals with Edo on the #78 H4 car ) So i believe the wing was just too wide for the hatch bodystyle I was running. ( and my car was just not loose enough to run a wing ) I will try to post some pics tomorrow,

I will be trying a significantly shorter one, hopefully by Buttonwillow next month.

R

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris F &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I am not, but have been considering it since my straight line speed is fine, but braking at 130 MPH sucks (it's a nervous braker) and high speed corners I'm a little loose.

-Chris</TD></TR></TABLE>

The wing would definately help the nervous braking and high speed loose, however that is exactly what my car was doing before the wing. Then with the wing, it was too over stuck in the rear. It would probably work well if you have the ability to make your car even more loose than it is now.

Once Kiwi has a handle on his manufacturer, I would like to see if we can get 3 or 5 of these things and provide them to various guys with different set ups . This wing appears to work very well. But the most success I have had so far was from other people testing with it.

R

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JuanTushag &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">For thoes that dont know ( i didnt untill i recently had dinner with him ) J-mac is not only educated in aerodynamics, he works as an engineer for a helicopter company. </TD></TR></TABLE>

JOHNNY MAC HAS A JOB????? NOOO WAAYYYYY!!!!! JB

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JOE BD-0 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

JOHNNY MAC HAS A JOB????? NOOO WAAYYYYY!!!!! JB</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, didn't they tell you, I'm now your boss.