I did the mazda drivers hpde event at the end of Aug @ VIR Full course. I've been looking for places to carry more speed. I've been holding 3rd through hogpen and I end up watching the tach more than the road. So I think I can do better by shifting to 4th there and carrying more speed through the front straight.

I'm at the top of 4th going through the uphill esses and back off a bit. I can probably go ahead and go to 5th, but that will mean an extra downshift in the uphill section before oak tree.

I've also considered going to a smaller front sway because there are a few places where I back off a bit to keep from pushing. Currently using a 24mm and considering a 21mm.

I was consistently turning about a 2:26-27 with an instructor in the car. I picked up a few seconds when he signed me off to solo.

Thats my instructor talking in the vid The original video quality was much better. Looks like google downconverts *A LOT*. Need to switch over to youtube...

http://video.google.com/videop...20593

 

What gear are you in when you're exiting oak tree? I would also try to carry a little more speed at the top of rollercoaster. My instructor told me to turn in a little later at 14. My turn in at 14 was just a little before where the other track merges in. I would hit the brake at marker 1, release for the turn at 14 and then threshold brake at 14a to start the right turn descent into rollercoaster.

I just did the TrackDaze event on Thurs. and Friday. I saw the MazdaDrivers rolling in just as I was leaving.

 

I exit oak tree in 3rd. I've tried downshifting to 2nd, but the car shoots through 2nd so quick that its pointless.

I think you are right, I could carry a bit more speed into roller coaster if I turn later.

Unfortunately some poor guy in a mazdaspeed 6 blew his motor first run of the first day. As I understand it, he didn't even make it to turn 1. Hope he isn't married...

 

What tires and transmission are you using? Listening to your shift points and so on, I'd guess Type S on the tranny.

Regardless of those things:
-Braking a bit early for T1.
-You can carry a little more speed into and through T3.
-You can be faster through T4 and the Snake. Turning in a little early for 5a and sliding through will actually allow you to carry more speed onto the bridge straight. You're also not carrying yourself out to the curbing on the left prior to turn-in for 5a, and that's messing up your angle of entry a little.
-The uphill esses look like they should be faster given your engine. I'd try 5th gear, see how much more speed you can carry to the top of the hill. Also try to maintain steady throttle/acceleration through there. It's really hard to tell from that video, but your line might be slightly off too.
-South Bend looks great, nice line.
-Oak Tree looks great, right gear selection, right line, etc (you might try braking later as you come up the hill before that though).
-Through Rollercoaster, as you come down the super short straight, then zig left before turning right for T17, you're turning in too late. This is forcing you to get on the gas later. Put yourself more to the left on the concrete gators before turn-in, finish all your braking/slowing down there, and get back on the gas before you're on the right gator.

Overall, that's really not bad. Which group were you in? For the most part I'd say to get faster you just kind of have to turn up the aggression a bit (later, harder braking; getting back on the gas sooner after braking; less letting off the gas [in the esses for example]).

 

For tires, I'm using 205/50/15 R888. This was my first hpde on them, so I was still finding their limits. The tranny is a type-s with a quaife.

For brakes I'm using an ITR setup with carbotech xp10's. They held up great without any fade, but that may just be a sign that I'm not hard enough on them.

I'm slow through T3 because I stay in 3rd through that section. watching the vids, I think you are right, its costing me too much to do that. I'd be better off going to 4, and downshifting back down to 3 before T4.

I see what you mean about T5.

The car can definitely go faster through the uphill esses. Not sure that I can yet though. lol... What I found before was that the car was getting very upset transitioning left/right with more speed, but that may be due to my line.

I see what you mean about T17 as well. That would explain why I had to wait so late to get back on the gas.

I was running in the intermediate group. This vid was not one of my best laps, but there were only a handful of laps where I didn't encounter slower traffic. So this was one of the few where I didn't have to modify line/speed for the cars around me.

Thanks for the feedback

Modified by kommon_sense at 3:19 PM 9/10/2008


Modified by kommon_sense at 3:20 PM 9/10/2008

 

Yeah man throw the car in 5th before the esses and keep your inputs small.
You can also carry a little more speed at the top of "Roller Coaster" but its not the most comfortable feeling
Here is a vid of my car there in March with NASA.
http://video.google.com/videop...02493
The car is being prepped for TTE its a RS with open diff and stock fd in the vid (now have 4.9 and ITR diff made a big difference)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kommon_sense &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Unfortunately some poor guy in a mazdaspeed 6 blew his motor first run of the first day. As I understand it, he didn't even make it to turn 1. Hope he isn't married...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Money shift?

 

Yeah, I think so. From what I heard, he had upped the boost from the stock 14psi to 17psi or something like that... Motor probably wasn't properly warmed up and he probably gunned it right off the line... They were in the green group.

 

well, I've only been there once with SCCA in my ITB car...

But, the real big time loss I saw was the uphill esses.

You were babying it through there.
Nothing to be ashamed of, as that is one of the toughest sequence of corners in the southeast and scares the crap out of people.

but, the fast corners are where you will gain or lose the most time and those are very important on that track.
I would go to 5th and push harder there.

Your instructor was not much of an instructor...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kommon_sense &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'd be better off going to 4, and downshifting back down to 3 before T4.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not necessarily. I have no way of telling from the vid, but are you redlining 3rd well before the braking point for 3? If not, no need to shift. I stay in 3rd through that, but I'm holding it pretty much right at redline.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kommon_sense &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What I found before was that the car was getting very upset transitioning left/right with more speed, but that may be due to my line.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yep, get your line down a little better and that whole complex will become more stable. Very minor differences in line and turn-in points make a big change in the behavior of the car there. If you're not comfortable pushing harder there yet though, that's not a good place to just "wing it." A good way to start would be to maintain your current speed, but make changes in your line to see how the feel of the car changes.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Stinkycheezmonky &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Not necessarily. I have no way of telling from the vid, but are you redlining 3rd well before the braking point for 3? If not, no need to shift. I stay in 3rd through that, but I'm holding it pretty much right at redline.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Oh yeah, I'm redlining way before T3. As soon as you hear me back out of the throttle, its because I'm approaching redline.

I'm doing the same thing for the uphill esses. I'm nearly redlining 4th before the turn for north course.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Yep, get your line down a little better and that whole complex will become more stable. Very minor differences in line and turn-in points make a big change in the behavior of the car there. If you're not comfortable pushing harder there yet though, that's not a good place to just "wing it." A good way to start would be to maintain your current speed, but make changes in your line to see how the feel of the car changes.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'll work on it next time I'm there. I just spooked myself when I was there in May because someone in the previous session blew oil. I carried a little too much speed through the esses, and as I approached the top of the hill with an upset car, kitty litter everywhere... lol...

I was actually taking southbend a little conservatively this time out since I was still learning the tires and didn't want to scare my instructor... I used to not brake at all. Just lifted and came out with the passenger tire all over the gators...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kommon_sense &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

For brakes I'm using an ITR setup with carbotech xp10's. They held up great without any fade, but that may just be a sign that I'm not hard enough on them.

Modified by kommon_sense at 3:20 PM 9/10/2008</TD></TR></TABLE>

From watching so many different videos on here over the years it looks to me that people, in general, brake way to early.

You know when you hit the limit for your brake point when you feel that you just made it through the turn by the skin of your teeth.

Obviously if your tires are squealing like a pig you've reached the limit for that turn with the line you are on and your set up. Try a different line. Picking up a few mph in a slow turn will lower your times much more than picking up a few mph on the straights.

I was only at VIR once in my old 86 Civic in GT4 trim and it was cold (40 degrees) I'd estimate the the car had 120-125 whp and weighed 2020 lbs with me in it but I could turn 2:19 -2:20. The car would top out at about 122 mph, if that. So you have to find the speed in the turns. You have to keep going deeper into each turn until you find the limit of the brakes for your set up.

So use your brakes more and go faster.

 

Agreed. I'm definitely working on my confidence w/braking. Last time out I was on greasy azenis and the tires gave way before the brakes did. So I actually did *MUCH* better on my braking here. However still plenty of room for improvement. I finished the sessions with great brakes, so safe to say that I didn't find their limits because I never had any fade.

I put the video on youtube. Quality is a little better than google. Might have to hit the "high quality" button on youtube just below the vid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mldq7wUwlVM

 

I can't watch video's from work, but I'll check it out tonight.
Seems like Stinkycheezmonky covered almost everything anyway.

 

Don, you have a different perspective being in such a faster car. I was thinking some things while watching, based on my own driving, then I had to go back and rethink it for HIS car. There are a few spots you might have better input than what I can give (3 and 5a especially).

 

Ok, here's my 2 pennies:
-Turn 1 looked good.
-You let off before going into 2a. Truthfully you should be full throttle and even going into 4th (before the turn in) if you have to. A light brake for 3 (downshift if you fell comfortable) and the full throttle through 3.
-Going through 3 had a good line. You could carry a bit more speed through there, just keep on the gas because your backend will want to rotate.
-Like monky pointed out, when need to let the car swing out after 5 and align yourself with the curb. So your actually making a mini-straight there. You'll get more speed through 5 and then this will give you a better angle going into 5a.
-The S's are tricky. But at the top of 9, you're still hugging the right side of the track. So this means you have plenty of tire left to carry more speed through there. Usually I prefer to be pushed out to about mid track coming through 9. Any further and its hard to settle the car before going into 10. You lifted a little before going into 9, I think you would have been fin staying full throttle and using a lot more of the track width.
In your case, it's hard to say whether or not to go into 5th before the S's. It just depends on how your car pulls 5th gear.
-10 looked good. Rub the gator on your left and then power through till you rub the gator in the right.
- Going into 11 seems to be the same issue you had with 5a. After you come out of 10, aim for the "2" and get the car straight before the turn into 11.
-From the braking zone at 14 up to 14a, you where basically 'coasting'. You can one of two things. Brake hard in the braking zone, downshift and scrub your speed going into 14 to make your turn in, then you should actually be on the gas going up to 14a. Braking hard again before the turn in a 14a. So rather then one big long braking zone, you actually have two braking zones and a mini straight.
-15 and 16 looked good. Your going to have to play around with short-shifting to 4th before 16 and see how much more speed you can carry onto the straight. Your having to shift right at 17a, so it's kinda hard to tell.

Other then some pointers above and not actually having been able to drive in the car, I thought your lines where good and you seemed smooth and comfortable with the car.
You could get a little more aggressive with your springs rates to get the car to rotate some more, but that is going to be a personal driving choice.

 

Thanks for the feedback.

Aiming for the 2 at T10 makes a lot of sense. I just gotta make sure that I don't try that with someone right behind me

I think that short shifting around 15/16 is the way to go. I'm spending too much time watching the tach through 17a, so i should be able to carry more speed onto the straight.

I'm using the carbotech xp10's, and just took them off to put my street pads back on the car. I never got them to fade, but I certainly put a lot of wear on them. Not sure if what I have left of the pad will make it completely through another track weekend.

As for spring rates. I'm currently running 10k/8k, but swaybars are 24f/22r. I'm leaning towards a smaller front sway. I'm trying to determine if I want to cough up the loot for the 18mm mugen front, or just call up a salvage yard for an ex 21mm front.


Modified by kommon_sense at 9:01 AM 9/13/2008

 

I'd say cheap it out on the front bar (21mm or whatever) and go with a bigger rear bar if you're going to spend money somewhere.

 

I've got the comptech adjustable rear on the middle position, so I can set it to its hardest position and gain a hair there. I think I'll do that before the next event in Oct. since its a free mod and save my pennies for a new front sway over the winter.

 

Isn't there an old Accord front sway that is 18mm?
Are you running a front tower bar? You could play around with removing it too.

 

I wouldnt worry too much about tuning the car if it is handling okay now. Certainly dont buy anything yet.
Drive it closer to it's limit first.

Seriously though, I am a decent wheel man myself, but on the one and only visit I had to VIR, I had much difficulty getting EVERYTHING out of the uphill esses and that blind cresting left hander afterwards...

I was only able to get down to about 2:30 I think in my 92 hp race car...

Here is how you do it.

You need to concentrate on just one little section of the track per lap.

Try and take the corner or sequence of corners a tiny bit faster each time around.

So, rather then a little bit let off from the throttle, try a smaller reduction in throttle let off each time...

AFter 10 laps you may be close to no decrease in throttle...meaning full throttle...when going through the section.

Take tiny bites, and you will get faster.

 

Another vid with me in the car solo. Carried a bit more speed in a few places, but it really shows how much time I'm losing by not shifting. My solo laptimes were about 2:23.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E09-el1ARQw

 

Who was your instructor? His voice sounds like Randy Pobst's.

 

Deff not upshifting enough and too much coasting.
Oh yeah, too many early entries.
One note on saftey, keep your thumbs out of the wheel and place on top of.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Another Drew &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Who was your instructor? His voice sounds like Randy Pobst's.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I believe his name was Mike Sarver. Smaller build guy.