How many of you are autocrossing and track racing with a turbo? Im just curious as to the reliablity of these setups. I am going turbo soon, this fall, but I am concerned that my car will be too unstable to beat on it like that for extended periods of time such as on a track. Every turbo guy I talk to is super paranoid about blowing up his **** and what not. I know everyone is going to respond to this and say "tune, tune, tune" but I just want to get an idea of where everyone stands.


[Modified by Muckman, 9:57 AM 7/25/2002]

 

maybe you should rephrase your title from "track racing" to "track days". Most racing organizations wont allow cars that have been turbocharged, and often cars that were turbo from the factory get the shaft in one way or another.

RJ

 

I can definitely add something to this discussion... was at Summit yesterday instructing for the National SHO convention (Ford SHO Tauruses).

I was asked to take out one of the more highly modded SHOs to explain the line to the student (he was an "expert") and to see what the car could do. This particular SHO was highly modded; it had the Vortech blower kit; Spearco water/ice intercooler pack. It was running 12 psi boost on the stock 10.1:1 compression. It had a backyard built fuel system. It had about 27 different gauges (looked like a plane's cockpit!) monitoring everything, including both exhaust bank's temps. It was dynoed at 440 hp at the front wheels.

It also had a Quaiffe; racing clutch, suspension package, monster Wilwood brakes, etc etc. etc.

It ran AWESOME and did not break. If you hit turn 10 just right when you went by start finish line you were red lining 4th (130 mph) and ready for 5th. She'd do almost 145 by the brakzone for turn 1. Could only do this a couple of times before the monster Wilwoods would overheat (owner says car weighs 3600 lbs). It was run all day long very hard and did not break. It was quite hot down there, too. Guy daily drives this ****.

So yes; I'd say if the engine is prepped right it might be OK.

YMMV (alot!).

Todd

PS I was faster than anyone in my little 140 hp Lotus!
PPS I kinda was cheating since I was running slicks (Goodyear 430 compound).

 

Almost everyone I know that has added forced induction to an engine that was never meant to have it has had issues (read: blown engines).

I think it can be done reliably, just takes time, money and a good supply of engines to get it right. It is *never* right the first time.


[Modified by MaddMatt, 8:02 AM 7/25/2002]

 

-intercooler!
-plenty of fuel
-safe boost levels (75% of the max normal use)
-free flowing exhasut
-sodium filled valves
-coated pistons/manifold
-oil temp!!!! and pressure gauges
-good oil
-plenty of cool down after a session (5min. minimum)
-etc.

Will
-who had a turbo car and tracked that bitch...

 

Lock you poll, you might get a bunch of unwanted remarks in the poll. In my case I have tracked my Wife's Audi A4. It's not a honda, but I love the A4.

 

heh yeah I shoulda locked the poll, Im surprise no one has added 'smoke weed everyday' yet.

Thanks for the feedback guys. I intend to get this turbo setup right the first time, thats my goal, not power. Although I intend to keep stock internals for now, I dont intend to boost alot until it can be tuned. My objective will be tuning with low boost before anything else. I am fortunate to have a good friend who has experience with his own turbo install on a EK Si and tunning that is still healthy a year later, I can learn from his mistakes and hopefully do this right. [This is leading off into the forced induction forum]

 

I track and autoX a turbocharged car, but its not a honda and came from the factory that way, so thats probably not what you are talking about.

The reason many people will not track an aftermarket FI car is because the car was built for drag racing ~12 seconds of WOT at a time is a lot different than 20 minutes. If you are tuning your turbo for drag racing, then it might not be a good idea to take it to the track
A track- tuned FI car (there it is again..."tune tune tune") will have similar reliability as a NA car. Keep the boost levels reasonable, and make sure your air/fuel ratios are rich enough and EGTs are low enough. A/F and EGT are the most important keys to not blowing up your FI engine (other than boost of course) and are usually directly related.
Do some logging under track-like conditions to make sure everything is good

 

Yes, SCCA gets the monkey for its turbo hatin'
SCCA has always been very anti FI

This is why NASA rocks. USTCC and Pro Compact is the only place for my WRX to play. (not like I would be at the level to enter USTCC anytime soon......)


[Modified by elgorey, 12:59 PM 7/25/2002]


[Modified by elgorey, 12:59 PM 7/25/2002]

 

Many SCCA regions have developed classes for turbocharged cars. Cal Club has an ITE class that accepts all kinds of production-based cars, including turbo cars. We're planning to run a Grand-Am Cup Audi A4 1.8T Quattro in the 6-hour Cal Club Enduro at Buttonwillow this Saturday (July 27). They also have Super Production, which takes things a step or two further. Keep in mind, however, that most classes like these will not have very tight rules designed to equalize various makes and models - probably no different than with other clubs.

For a look at the Cal Club rules for ITE and SP, click on http://www.calclub.com/regional_rules.htm.

 

*knock on wood* Haven't had any issues yet!!

 

arent those classes usually dominated by the high dollar porsches and heavily modified cars?

 

It's always a possibility that some high-horsepower car will show up, but at least there is a place to race turbo cars wheel-to-wheel with the SCCA. Turbo cars are difficult to police, which is why the SCCA has chosen to eliminate turbo cars from most (all?) standard classes. I haven't paid that much attention to turbo-eligible classes with other clubs. Do they have regulated classes to keep the high-horsepower cars out? Have they been successful?

 

you have just given me something to research.
From what I have seen, the turbo eligible classes are pretty hardcore high dollar competition. I think I remember seeing a 911 turbo (996) winning one race.....

Other racing bodies use a memory-type boost gauge installed under the hood for turbo cars, So boost levels can be easily policed and monitored. Other than that, its no harder to police Turbo cars than N/A cars.

 

Even with such memory-type boost monitoring devices, there are ways to cheat. I've heard about some of the complaints from the NA guys of the turbo car running more boost than they should even in pro racing such as the old Speedvision Cup (which later turned into the Motorola Cup, then the Grand Am cup). Not sure about the details, but I know for a fact that there were ways to get around the policing for the turbo cars if you really wanted to cheat. I'm sure if you really police it vigorously (like they do in the WC GT), it will work, but especially in amateur club racing, the ability to constantly police turbo cars to such a degree is virtually impossible. Here in the sediv, the Super production class (SPO) allows turbos, and I've seen at least a couple turbo 911s that have won against the tube frame V8s. Hey, at least they are turbo!

As the WRX driver, I also autox and occasionally take my turbo (from the factory) car on the track. So far it's been perfectly reliable. I'm already looking at some more upgrades, but the trouble with that is that the more you upgrade, the less reliable the car becomes, no matter which way you look at it. A "less" upgraded *equally tuned and prepped* car as another more heavily upgraded car, will be more reliable in the end. Guess it's up to you how far you think you can push the reliability envelope! Good luck and have fun with your turbo.

 

Well, IMHO, reliably is the only way it should be done. If it can't be done reliably, why do it at all?

 

im working on a reliable setup.

 

a friend in California did a track day with his turbo gsr. a few notes about the car
-over 130,000 miles
-greddy turbo kit + intercooler
-larger oil lines (feed and return)
-stock boost (~5-6psi)
-stock motor otherwise

he had no problems with the car the whole weekend. but remember, the greddy kit comes with plenty of fuel for the car and doesnt run high levels of boost

Brian

 

i would definitely add a oil cooler to my turbo car if i am going to road racing

and run as low boost as u can

 

Well, just for shitz and giggles, here's a couple of video of me on the track with the turbo. My first ever open track racing so I still have alot to work on regarding my lines.

http://download.bseries.net/Asahi/trun.wmv

Traffic:
http://www.stingbee.com/thunderhill.wmv