I came here to draw from the knowledge of my fellow HT members. I really need to squash this problem ASAP please drop some knowledge on me if you can:

My civic has been running fine for the past few days. Today I go to take off out of the parking lot and it just stops dead right there and it refuses to start back up.g
It turns over fine, battery is charged, I had been driving the car just an hour prior to this problem coming up. I've been reading the manual and doing random tests here and there.

To cut to the chase; Starting with the idea that the engine needs fuel,spark,compression and timing to even attempt to start, I think the problem may be ignition-related. I say this because:
- I had been driving it earlier.
- Fuel gauge reads 1/4 tank.
-I don't think timing or compression would just randomly drop out all of the sudden w/o warning. Like this thing just dead stop, no strange noises or anything. My dizzy rotor changes position during cranking so I believe the timing belt is still in tact also.

So I don't have a spark plug socket with me to pull a plug to sniff for fuel and check if it actually is producing good spark... would you say that would be the thing to do right now if I could manage to find a way to get it done?

 

Sounds like the Dizzy or main relay man

 

yea i kno right.
When I key into RUN I hear the relay kick on, fuel pump prime for a few seconds and then back off. If that is the MAIN relay doing that then its fine; to the best of my knowledge it is....

 

since you think it's ignition related, just pulled the wires and hold the wire close to a ground. Have someone turn the motor over and look for a spark. No spark means new dizzy if you have spark it might mean a fuel problem or main relay.

 

okay cool well i might try that with something. one thing i read about was how to tell a strong spark from a weak one and it involved checking the color of the actual spark across the plug gap, i wonder if that test can work the same way if i held the tip of the wire close to a ground or something ?

but while i wait to work on the car again (day light) more input is greatly appreciated including questions!!

 

Well this morning, after having sat overnight without being touched, the car started right up. I drove it around got a few things done. While I was driving it I worked to keep the engine revs high for fear it would die out again, not that it actually made a difference but that's what I did. I parked it for maybe an hour or so, then took off in it again but then it died on me about in 2 minutes, refusing to start back up.

SO this could tell me:
- Fuel is good. (It burned fine both before it died and after it came back to life)
- Compression isnt an issue. (How the engine dies does not point to a compression issue)
- Timing isnt an issue (the timing can't change back and fourth between good and bad)

SO that leaves:
- Ignition
- Fuel PRESSURE

During Testing:
- Fuel PRESSURE: As I said before in my original post I felt the rubber line in the engine bay to have a good amount of pressure after a few primes and the engine still wouldn't start so somehow fuel pressure IS building up and it isn't magic I don't think.

- Ignition: This one is a mystery. I took XkjeldorX's advice and pulled a wire and plug. Being alone I layed the connected plug on my wiper to see if it would spark (hoping the metal wiper was grounded)... I couldn't see any spark but then again it was like the middle of the day and i was looking through a windshield

The official service manual is helpful but they ask me to check for voltages at the ECU pins which I cannot really get to ... if only I could find alternative locations to measure voltage between body ground and the A23 & A24 terminals.

I could really use suggestions please on helping narrow this down. Thanks!

 

Just get a spark plug or something and put that in there. Have somebody check it. It's imperative to know whether you're getting spark or not - so you can't just dismiss it on that half-assed test you did by putting it on ur windshield wiper.

EDIT:
PS: What's your battery reading while the car is running? I'm thinking alternator or alternator ground sounds feasible. It's the type of problem that would die a few minutes after you start the car up (if the battery's not charging).

Put a multi-meter on the battery, see what it's reading, also check the battery's voltage again when it's running to see what that is.

EDIT2:
No spark DOESN'T point to dizzy. It points to a "general electrical issue" - that COULD be your dizzy, but not necessarily.

 

The main realay still may be bad they will work from time to time with no problem the reason why they fail is heat.When they get old and hot the soder points break and they start to cause problems.Another thing to think about is your ignition switch it will make your car just all of a sudden just stop and not restart.A easy check is to get the car started and wiggle the key and and try to pull it out with the key in the run position.Or try to mess with the key from position 2 the acc spot and turn it slowly from acc to run and if the dash lights flicker the switch is bad.You may also want to consider the fuel pump but try to eliminate the small things first.

 

I've had my '92 Civic for quite a while now. In one case, the car would run fine and then just suddenly die or not restart. As AcuraTech mentions, the main relay was the problem for my vehicle. Seems the solder connections fatigue over time and break, it's a fairly common problem. If you take the relay apart, you won't see the cracks, they're microscopic. I fixed my problem for free by resoldering a couple conections on the relay.

Check this web page for more: http://tegger.com/hondafaq/mainrelay.html
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Since relay coils are relatively heavy, and the relay assembly is bolted solidly to the car, vibration sometimes causes hairline cracks to form in the solder joints on that printed circuit board. This can cause intermittent failures, which are especially likely to happen when the car has been parked in the sun on hot days.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

Thank you all for your generous help and assistant in this matter.

I went out with a friend to go test the car. It started up! So I drove it back to my parkinglot and parked it. Started it several more times with no problem. So I had no reason to check for spark at that time.

I went ahead and took the battery voltage:
Off: 13.10
Running: 14.10
The battery has been charging from what i can tell.

Checked the transmission ground (read about it elsewhere).

After putting a little thought into it I like the idea of the main relay, i'll make note of that. Thanks a mill for the suggestion.


Any and all more suggestions are welcomed.

 

Alright so I'm back with an update...

I visited the webpage iainuts linked me to, it was very helpful. That page linked me to an even more helpful website:
http://techauto.tripod.com/mainrelay.htm

It's pretty awesome.

So I pulled the main relay and found 1 dry solder joint. I clean it up and re-soldered the connection. However the engine has since stalled on me twice, in my parking lot luckily just after driving.

To cut to the chase I think whatever is causing the problem does so once it itself gets hot. I.E. once heat in the engine bay saturates the questionable part then it starts acting funky.

The ignition coil is 1st on the list of suspects still as it's casing appears it may be cracked and last time I checked, it's resistance was out of tolerance anyway according to the Honda Service Manual. I will check it again tomorrow.

I was going to check for spark when it died but becuase this questionable part was on the boardline of being too hot to operate the car kept starting up fine but then i'd have to close the hood and heat things up and yadda yadda plus it was cool outside so i'mma try again tomorrow during the hot sunny day.

I wish I could get a hold of a guaranteed working but used coil and igniter because the new ones from auto zone are not cheap but its whatever I need this car acting right.

I'm too tired right now to actually talk any more rational so if you have something to chime in please feel free.


Modified by Paprika at 9:44 PM 8/26/2008

 

fuel pump relay were is it iam lost and having the same problem

 

hey check the sensors man u know oxygen etc one faulty sensor and thats what it can do

 

Re: (92CivicDude) fuel pump relay were is it iam lost and having the same problem

oh I am sure it is the grey box looking thing on towards you sitting in the drivers seat next to the fuse box and hood release inside the car its a little tough too find but you will know it when you see it it has a big brown plug jack too

 

Thank you

 

Hey I just wanna make sure that me and you are along the lines of the same problem. I just recently got the car. and been driving it for about 2 weeks. then this happens. I went out to get into it one night, after it did it in the sun for a little, but cooled off, and went to put the keys in, and nothing. I have full power in the Lights, and everything electric work but when i turn the key to run...nothing. I hear the 3 clicks but the 3rd. I have plently of gas, oils fine, battery is ffine. just wanna make sure the problem here is about the same

 

The starter won't crank the engine, right? If so, start by checking the safety starter switch at the top of the clutch pedal and the rubber stopper that it presses on.

 

Ignitor unit, change it.

 

have you tried checking your ENGINE HARNESS FOR LOOSE CONNECTIONS? have you check the fuses in your fuse box? when the car does not want to start do you hear any clicking in the engine area? you can test for sparks by using a spark plug thats not connected in your car simply get any spark plug connect it to your spark plug wire and put it against any ground i prefer the ground on the chassis where the radiator is located if it reaches. just to make sure you know its not too much of a problem i would recommend changing the coil in your dizzy,spark plugs and wires basically a full tune up. check all your fuses and relays... to my knowledge if the main fuel pump relay isnt working when you turn the key all way to run and it only clicks once every time you try to start it then you have a bad relay or a bad ground somewhere going along your starter. next time your car does not want to start grab a nice size wrench and hit your starter a few times. if it starts THEN ITS YOUR STARTER. the starter doesnt have to be replaced but you just hit it and it will still work.if your car dies as you drive put it in a lower gear and attempt to kick start it