Its been a LONG time since I read posts, or posted. I read some posts today, and was AMAZED at how quickly "What's cool" can change-

About a year ago I asked some questions RE building up my stock F22. The responses were dead-brained and senseless, so I never asked questions again. I just continued doing my research for the F22 build. At that time the ONLY cool motor was the H22 series, "all the rage", "the ONLY cool way to go", all in that line.

At that time, I had finished gutting/upgrading the entire brake/suspension systems and had to wait about a year to regroup the $$ for the engine-build. I never abondoned the idea of building the stock SOHC engine out- I KNEW HP/torque could be improved greatly.

And I am old-school, believing in the KISS principle- Keep the engine simple (nothing simpler than an F22 SOHC), do lots of research, spend money on good parts and machine-work, shoot for dependability if it's a DD and not to be used for the track.

So, I read the posts tonight, and the F22 is now "acceptable"? The point is this- DONT listen to what everyone else is saying about "What is cool", next year IT WONT BE! Keep it simple as you can for high-dependability if its a DD, I see WAY too many tuner cars on block a lot of the time. Build out one system at a time as time/finances permit, dont get stretched too thin trying to do too much on too many systems at one time.

I DID notice one post for a Bizi buildout would run $10K. The block/valvework/intake/header/exhaust/clutch I have planned will be running at about another $4K, and the design IS NOT all that exotic, but DAMN the money builds up fast for the parts!!

And I'm not even going to into the design-lots of it's "not cool". Man, I'm glad I'm old enough not to give a rats *** what other people think, what they think changes every six months! I've been wrenching for 30+ years, I build a DD for dependability/longevity first, gross HP/torque second, if it's not a track-car.

You need to START with a realistic budget, then work backwords. I've already spent about $4K on the brakes/suspension/cooling/peripherals, I keep warning the cars you see in the mags often cost $70K-100K to build!!

One last note- I see HUGE amounts spent on kids building suspensions, than I watch them fight the car's steering all the way down the freeway. Why? They spend TONS on eqpt to drop the car, but they DONT punch out ALL the frame-bushings, which are SHOT OUT by 70-100K miles!

If you want a suspension that does more than LOOK GOOD, budget to drop every single suspension arm in the car out and have new bushings pressed in. Once again, I did it "uncool"- I went with a simple system (Tokiko/Energy/HR/Ingalls) to keep the eqpt price down, but spent some solid cash to have every single bushing in the car repressed. And I spent the money for items like ALL new hardware for the brake-system and replacing the shot out hoses with SS lines.
VERY uncool, I "only" dropped the car 1", but it handles like a $70K sport-coupe, and at 15K+ miles on EXPENSIVE Bridgestone radials (replaced after the build) the tires show ZERO wear-nada/zero, they MAY go for 70K+ miles!

It's the BUSHINGS that make as much, or MORE difference, than the springs/coilovers, whatever you plan to install! I had to include this- once again, I don't give a rats *** what people think, the money is spent for solid design/engineering first, "looks" second, and the results are incredible performance and dependability, but maybe not an exactly "cool" look.

I thought I would post this- the F22 posts got me laughing, what was TOTALLY uncool a year ago is now "in". And I am not slamming the VTEC design/H-series/any suspension design in any way.

My point is 1) research 2) BUDGET 3) go for engineering/dependability FIRST if its your DD 4) STOP worrying about what's "IN" (that changes every year or two, I can GUARANTEE it!!)

By the way, my suspension/brake systems are awesome, but the BEST thing is the car has NEVER been out of commision for one day since I finished the work on these sytems, and they work flawlessly.

A long time ago, when I built out largeblock V8's, I learned extreme performance came with a price- it pushes the entire engine/tranney/drivetrain to the extremes of their design, then s--- breaks!

Later, I gotta go and get some sleep. Have fun, but use your head, do what's right for you and the car, forget the BS of what's "cool" for 12-18 months. Reworking a car takes SERIOUS money, even if not done near extremes, so forget the cars in the mags unless YOU can come up with $70-100K! Wrenchy

 

http://www.bisimoto.com/

Home of the 450hp+ N/A F22A.

/debate.

 

IDK wrenchy, nothing seems to have really changed in whats "cool" or "in".

Bisi has been working on the F22 for years.

Others have been choosing the F over H for a while as well.

Some just see the H22 as being the better choice since it has more HP form the factory or whatever other reason. Some prefer the F because of the sleeves that come in the block from the factory, ect.

Others like being able to say they beat someone with a SOHC as opposed to a DOHC.

Nothing has really changed IMO, there will always be the F vs H debates and you'll always find people who prefer one over the other.

Maybe some new things have come out for the F series in the last year but that doesn't mean they were any less "cool" then as they are now.

 

Very, very well put. I couldn't agree with you more. This is how I have always looked at it. I am often just blowen off because of this. But you are 100% spot on. This is the #1 best way to look at it. Any other way and you will more then likely fail.

As for chrisfromda909 those are some bad *** pic's of bisi's motor .

God I would love to be able to do a motor that way for the track.

 

god dam thats sexy. 450hp, isnt the old one in the insight only at like 350?

 

This seems like a very pointless thread.

The F22 isn't the new "cool" thing to do, it's the stock motor. Bisimoto (not BiZi y0) has only made it easier to extract good power from the motor, so it now seems a viable option as an all motor engine. Fact is, if it weren't for Bisi's recent hard work, everyone would still be knocking the F like they have for years. I've had many heated discussions with B series guys defending the F22's potential, both all motor and turbo. Only to be met with the question, "If it's such a great motor, why did you swap an H22??" The answer? Simplicity. This is my DD, I have no desire to have a turbo or high compression A/M setup. Too much to worry about in a car that takes me to the beach and to band practice.

Just because other people didn't see the potential the F had all along, doesn't mean it's the new cool band wagon thing to do. Anyone who drops a certain engine in his car because it's "IN" is a [freak]ing idiot. Sorry, no other way to put it.

The H22 is a good option because you can swap the motor in STOCK and achieve similar numbers to a mildly built F22 for less money. Plus, once again, the motor is stock, so you have much less to worry about reliability wise. DOHC VTEC is also a nice thing to have if the car is a daily. It offers a good combination of drive-ability, power, and fuel economy.

 

I know what you are saying, but those are the guys that also get involved in the trendy side of things where power and/or performance comes 2nd to being trendy.

I'm a cheap bastard anyway and work with the motor I have as long as it is in good working order and can be turbo'd of course .

I don't worry about the H22

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by technine &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't worry about the H22 </TD></TR></TABLE>

Lol. Yeah...don't worry about that little thing...Wanna race?