I went abroad for work, and needed a tuner to finish building my H2 HC car since I wouldn't be around to do it. Here's the problem I am having:

So my tuner bought a $1150 SMSP header, and now 9 days before my event, I find out it hits my CRX's front subframe. There is apparently some bend at the bottom to maximize the primary's length. The usual solution is to use a traction bar, which neither my tuner nor Dave at SMSP knew were illegal for HC until I just told him now. 3 quick options that come to mind:

1. Buy a Toda header (another $1100, and my tuner says it's my header now, and he can't return the SMSP, and Toda's are near impossible to get)
2. Get SMSP to fix the header, even having me trailer the car down to them (SMSP is busy, and may not be able to do this in time - but it's not my fault, so I think this is the fair solution)
3. Hack the sh*t out of the subframe to make it fit

Any other ideas? What should I do? Is #2 unreasonable?

 

Who's responsible for making sure the parts are H2 legal? You, your tuner, or SMSP? Did you give your tuner have a copy of the rules? Did your tuner make sure the header would be H2 legal before ordering from SMSP?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Another Drew &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Who's responsible for making sure the parts are H2 legal? You, your tuner, or SMSP?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I would say that because the tuner was told from Day 1 that this was going to be an H2 car, that he is

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Another Drew &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Did you give your tuner have a copy of the rules?</TD></TR></TABLE>
He said he is very familiar with the rules, has built HC (including H2) cars before, and would make sure it was all legal

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Another Drew &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Did your tuner make sure the header would be H2 legal before ordering from SMSP?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Dave @ SMSP said it was legal as well, and was calling it an "H2 specific 1.8 liter header" as was the tuner

 

Use your Hammer and spend some loving time with the crossmember.


Edo

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EdoMoto &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Use your Hammer and spend some loving time with the crossmember.


Edo</TD></TR></TABLE>

that's what i think too. as long as it aligns straight..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EdoMoto &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Use your Hammer and spend some loving time with the crossmember.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I already had to take some love time to make the radiator to fit, and this needs LOTS of love to make the header fit, like the kind of love that compromises chassis rigity big time

 

The rules allow you to notch the crossmember for header fitment. I cut a section out of mine and bent a shallow, U-shaped steel plate to weld into the section. Pretty straight forward job that any welding shop ought to be able to handle if you're not so equipped.

 

^^me too

 

Even if the header buldges out below the radiator fan and will require 2" to cut out of a 4" wide subframe?

 

Please PM me your email and the person who ordered the header. I have never told anyone that my B18C1 or B18C5 header will fit an EF without mods. You can run an aftermarket cross member but you don't need to run traction bars.

 

Glad to see a caring response, PM'd

But to clarify, yes, the tuner knew he had to modify/swap out the subframe (with a traction bar), as you told him (apparently). The problem is that this is illegal for H2 Honda Challenge, and hacking the subframe would be a structural problem with the amount that would have to be cut (again, apparently - I have not seen it)


Modified by GI8U2racing at 7:53 PM 8/18/2008

 

If you are wanting to build a legal race car for some type of racing class.......... It is only wise and normal to make sure you take care of things yourself. You should never put it on a "builder" to do everything for you!

I am sure your builder knows what he is doing. Sounds like he has gone out of his way to try to make things rite and most likely spending alot more time and money then what is invested.

Dave makes one awsome product that proves this with numbers! I know he has never said that header will fit without modification.

Just seems there is a bit of confusion on your part and you need to be more involved in what is going on with your car. Perhaps not put such a responsibility on a person. Most builders I know have way to many things going on with other customers and builds to worry about every little aspect of just one car. Needs to be a joint effort.


Modified by Smitdog at 9:01 PM 8/18/2008

 

i feel bad because i referred said 'tuner' and you seem very unhappy with the goings on.

i asked you what header you were getting and last i heard u were using a toda (which fits). had u told me an smsp was in order, i would have told you it wouldn't fit at all with a stock crossmember.
i'm sure if smsp won't take it back you'll be able to sell it. hell, i know some future h2 cars (as well as some itrs) that have todas that may be interested it a swap + funds

 

Tuner only stated that he saw Smithdog's and wanted one like it for a H2 car. He didn't specify that it was for a swap in an EF. I've emailed you all my emails with the tuner.

I'd double check about the cross member replacement. Because I believe it was talked about on the NASA HC Forums and was allowed for header install. As long as you weren't using the traction bar part of it. Using it only for clearance reasons I believe is fine. It offers no structural rigidity increases that would help a road race car.

 

the problem is the ef has radius rods to locate the front lca's. so if u change to an aftermarket crossmember, you have to use the entire set-up. there is one that uses stock radius rods and that'd be the one to use.
edit: http://www.innovativemounts.co...59111
:HOWEVER:
i just went over the rules and it doesn't say an aftermarket crossmember can be used for header clearance.


Modified by Lo-Buck EF at 9:15 PM 8/18/2008

 

Anyone actually read the rulebook on this?

9.4 Chassis and Body Preparation- H1 Only
m) Crossmember may be modified for the sole purpose of engine fitment.

So it specifies modification (not replacement) for H1 only.

Has someone seen an official rules update on this? If not, it sounds like you need another header and I need another crossmember...

 

maybe us ef guys should put in for a rules request to make the innovative crossmember the legal option for ehader fitment

 

Its only an issue for use with a 4-1 header. The 4-2-1 headers fit just fine...

 

Knowing a few more of the details behind the scenes here, I feel it necessary to mention a couple things.

I find this comment interesting:
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GI8U2racing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So my tuner bought a $1150 SMSP header, and now 9 days before my event, I find out it hits my CRX's front subframe. </TD></TR></TABLE>

That's interesting because 1.) you insisted he get that header instead of the Toda previously agreed on despite his initial refusal, and 2.) you signed up for an event without his knowledge before the car was completed, forcing this rushed situation.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GI8U2racing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
2. Get SMSP to fix the header, even having me trailer the car down to them (SMSP is busy, and may not be able to do this in time - but it's not my fault, so I think this is the fair solution)</TD></TR></TABLE>

Don't you think maybe you should've done a little research on fitment before you went to all that trouble of buying it? The fitment issues are apparently a known fact (I didn't know, but I don't have an EF), so the information is available. If you order a part that is known not to work ("will these B16 pistons work in my B20?"), that is indeed your fault. If you make the call on the part, do your own homework on it. No matter what, it simply is not Dave's fault in any way and to assume a "fair solution" involving him fixing everything is insulting to him, IMO.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GI8U2racing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I would say that because the tuner was told from Day 1 that this was going to be an H2 car, that he is</TD></TR></TABLE>

Just to reiterate, he's responsible for the parts being legal/fitting that you insist on him installing on the car, again despite his disagreement. Right.

So everyone is clear on my stance here, I am a good friend of the "tuner." He's a very standup and humble guy, and won't step forward to defend himself because that's kind of his way. Although he hasn't been named (and I won't be the one to do that), I still feel it appropriate to bring the other side of the story to the table. I can verify that he has gone very much out of his way to accommodate his customer.

That doesn't do anything to help with either the situation or the rules surrounding part of the issue, so I'll just end it there.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Smitdog &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you are wanting to build a legal race car for some type of racing class.......... It is only wise and normal to make sure you take care of things yourself. You should never put it on a "builder" to do everything for you!
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Exactly.