Hit the Dyno this morning
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MiG-21 superfan
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From: near the ocean, Moderator City, NJ
Re: Hit the Dyno this morning (SIVIC 3)
i'd view that file w/ SAE correction insteast of the X1.02 STD and then compare it to other cars they have on file for that dyno to see where you are at. but then again, that dyno is using STD probably because it allows for a higher reading (less stringent standard parameters) than SAE...so if the other cars are STD too, you can compare too.
some small manipulation in fueling and timing would allow you to get rid of the cam transition dip...ashame honda makes these like that from the factory. i never understood that. that tq curve is awesome, of course with the exception of the dip.
BTW, the reason they don't intersect at 5252 is because if you look, the tq scale and hp scale are very different from each other. if you look, you can see that if they were on the same scale (meaning hp and tq share the same line for scale number, like...125, for example), they'd intersect where they should.
Modified by builthatch at 10:35 PM 8/16/2008
some small manipulation in fueling and timing would allow you to get rid of the cam transition dip...ashame honda makes these like that from the factory. i never understood that. that tq curve is awesome, of course with the exception of the dip.
BTW, the reason they don't intersect at 5252 is because if you look, the tq scale and hp scale are very different from each other. if you look, you can see that if they were on the same scale (meaning hp and tq share the same line for scale number, like...125, for example), they'd intersect where they should.
Modified by builthatch at 10:35 PM 8/16/2008
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Re: Hit the Dyno this morning (builthatch)
I recall reading an article that quoted Honda stating something to the effect that Honda designed the cars engine and induction system characteristics so that the driver could feel the surge and hear the wail of the VTEC cam change.
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Re: Hit the Dyno this morning (Kidnkorner)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kidnkorner »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I recall reading an article that quoted Honda stating something to the effect that Honda designed the cars engine and induction system characteristics so that the driver could feel the surge and hear the wail of the VTEC cam change.</TD></TR></TABLE>
ahh, i c. that does makes sense. silly tho because it's slower : (
that's why when vtec controllers came out everyone was like "oh sit y0 i gained mad horsepowers!"
nah, you just made your dip bigger
that is the exact reason why seat of the pants can never be trusted ; )
ahh, i c. that does makes sense. silly tho because it's slower : (
that's why when vtec controllers came out everyone was like "oh sit y0 i gained mad horsepowers!"
nah, you just made your dip bigger
that is the exact reason why seat of the pants can never be trusted ; )
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From: San Antonio, TX, U.S.
Re: Hit the Dyno this morning (Kidnkorner)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kidnkorner »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I recall reading an article that quoted Honda stating something to the effect that Honda designed the cars engine and induction system characteristics so that the driver could feel the surge and hear the wail of the VTEC cam change.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You know if Honda ever Supercharged or Turbocharged any of their civics in the future (which is probably unlikely anyway) I would much rather enjoy the instant power of the S/C or the smooth but aggressive push of a small turbo kicking in at 3K rpm than I would the wail and kick of the vtec at a stratospheric 6K rpm.
I'd give it up in a heartbeat. But that's just me.
You know if Honda ever Supercharged or Turbocharged any of their civics in the future (which is probably unlikely anyway) I would much rather enjoy the instant power of the S/C or the smooth but aggressive push of a small turbo kicking in at 3K rpm than I would the wail and kick of the vtec at a stratospheric 6K rpm.
I'd give it up in a heartbeat. But that's just me.
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From: killafornia
Re: Hit the Dyno this morning (Kidnkorner)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kidnkorner »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I recall reading an article that quoted Honda stating something to the effect that Honda designed the cars engine and induction system characteristics so that the driver could feel the surge and hear the wail of the VTEC cam change.</TD></TR></TABLE>
incorrect. honda runs a dyno on low cam profile, then the high cam profile. where the dynos intersect, is where they initiate the cam changeover.
incorrect. honda runs a dyno on low cam profile, then the high cam profile. where the dynos intersect, is where they initiate the cam changeover.
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Re: Hit the Dyno this morning (i-VTEC_DOHC)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by i-VTEC_DOHC »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
incorrect. honda runs a dyno on low cam profile, then the high cam profile. where the dynos intersect, is where they initiate the cam changeover.</TD></TR></TABLE>
that doesn't mean what kidkorner said is incorrect...
they have the intake cam advanced a bit and the high cam retarded a bit from where they COULD be. it's not as simple as that, it's really the profile, manifolds and tuning too, but you know what i mean.
look at the graph, it's just like most untuned (OE tune) dohc vtec engines: the low cam flattens out and dips... and then the high cam comes on from that point and swings up to a respectable level.
if you drew a line from where the low cam starts to flatten up to where the high cam flattens out on it's way up, then you'd have it set properly.
an optimum tune would be like my old jdm gsr. the way it was tuned, you would be hard pressed to see a crossover...or feel one. you could hear a tonal difference, but that was about it.
BUT, the problem is you don't feel a dramatic jump like you do when it's stock, it's just seamless, so that is why i think what kid says might be plausible.
Modified by builthatch at 11:50 AM 8/17/2008
incorrect. honda runs a dyno on low cam profile, then the high cam profile. where the dynos intersect, is where they initiate the cam changeover.</TD></TR></TABLE>
that doesn't mean what kidkorner said is incorrect...
they have the intake cam advanced a bit and the high cam retarded a bit from where they COULD be. it's not as simple as that, it's really the profile, manifolds and tuning too, but you know what i mean.
look at the graph, it's just like most untuned (OE tune) dohc vtec engines: the low cam flattens out and dips... and then the high cam comes on from that point and swings up to a respectable level.
if you drew a line from where the low cam starts to flatten up to where the high cam flattens out on it's way up, then you'd have it set properly.
an optimum tune would be like my old jdm gsr. the way it was tuned, you would be hard pressed to see a crossover...or feel one. you could hear a tonal difference, but that was about it.
BUT, the problem is you don't feel a dramatic jump like you do when it's stock, it's just seamless, so that is why i think what kid says might be plausible.
Modified by builthatch at 11:50 AM 8/17/2008
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Re: Hit the Dyno this morning (i-VTEC_DOHC)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by i-VTEC_DOHC »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
incorrect. honda runs a dyno on low cam profile, then the high cam profile. where the dynos intersect, is where they initiate the cam changeover.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I am correct, captain cool guy. What I read was in print and online.
incorrect. honda runs a dyno on low cam profile, then the high cam profile. where the dynos intersect, is where they initiate the cam changeover.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I am correct, captain cool guy. What I read was in print and online.
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From: near the ocean, Moderator City, NJ
Re: Hit the Dyno this morning (O RLY)
dyno numbers can't be compared dyno to dyno, it just can't be done and expected to be accurate. unless the car you read was dynoed on the same dyno, under the same adjustments to the dyno software, it's impossible to say what's what.
to figure a basic whp number is to take the crank rating, which is, what, 197, and divide that by 15.5% for honda manual transmission drivetrain loss. So you can figure that in ideal conditions, in a good state of tune, that your average 8th gen Si makes 166-167whp. the problem again is that dyno numbers really are arbitrary. they are good for competing, run against run on the same dyno. that's it.
to figure a basic whp number is to take the crank rating, which is, what, 197, and divide that by 15.5% for honda manual transmission drivetrain loss. So you can figure that in ideal conditions, in a good state of tune, that your average 8th gen Si makes 166-167whp. the problem again is that dyno numbers really are arbitrary. they are good for competing, run against run on the same dyno. that's it.
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Re: Hit the Dyno this morning (builthatch)
wow this seems very weird. I put my stock 06 si on the dyno and may 187 to the wheels. so idk rather i just got a freak motor or if you bought all the stuff and didnt gain much hp.
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Re: Hit the Dyno this morning (josh's_accord)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by josh’s_accord »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wow this seems very weird. I put my stock 06 si on the dyno and may 187 to the wheels. so idk rather i just got a freak motor or if you bought all the stuff and didnt gain much hp.</TD></TR></TABLE>
did you bother at all to read the post RIGHT above yours?
DYNO NUMBERS ARE ARBITRARY. they mean NOTHING unless you are comparing to other cars on the SAME EXACT dyno, under the same settings for the dyno software. dyno is for tuning run vs. run, not anything else.
did you bother at all to read the post RIGHT above yours?
DYNO NUMBERS ARE ARBITRARY. they mean NOTHING unless you are comparing to other cars on the SAME EXACT dyno, under the same settings for the dyno software. dyno is for tuning run vs. run, not anything else.
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Re: Hit the Dyno this morning (builthatch)
yes i did but i dont think you can gain that much hp by the nembers you put into the dyno. your sayin that they should put out around 166 but mine put out 187. i dont think just puttin in numbers on the dyno machine would change that much.
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Re: Hit the Dyno this morning (josh's_accord)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by josh’s_accord »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yes i did but i dont think you can gain that much hp by the nembers you put into the dyno. your sayin that they should put out around 166 but mine put out 187. i dont think just puttin in numbers on the dyno machine would change that much.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You don't have a "freak" Si. I don't know why people keep thinking that just because they get a higher dyno readout.
To put it in perspective for you.....you could put your stock Si up against mine with Intake and RH which made 180WHP on a mustang dyno and i'll bet you 5 tanks of gas that you'll be staring down my *** every time.
Get the point??
You don't have a "freak" Si. I don't know why people keep thinking that just because they get a higher dyno readout.
To put it in perspective for you.....you could put your stock Si up against mine with Intake and RH which made 180WHP on a mustang dyno and i'll bet you 5 tanks of gas that you'll be staring down my *** every time.
Get the point??
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Re: Hit the Dyno this morning (RICO_)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RICO_ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
You don't have a "freak" Si. I don't know why people keep thinking that just because they get a higher dyno readout.
To put it in perspective for you.....you could put your stock Si up against mine with Intake and RH which made 180WHP on a mustang dyno and i'll bet you 5 tanks of gas that you'll be staring down my *** every time.
Get the point?? </TD></TR></TABLE>
dude chill out! i was just sayin. and racing wouldnt really tell you anything because that will depend on the driver. i was just sayin what mine put down on a dynojet
You don't have a "freak" Si. I don't know why people keep thinking that just because they get a higher dyno readout.
To put it in perspective for you.....you could put your stock Si up against mine with Intake and RH which made 180WHP on a mustang dyno and i'll bet you 5 tanks of gas that you'll be staring down my *** every time.
Get the point?? </TD></TR></TABLE>
dude chill out! i was just sayin. and racing wouldnt really tell you anything because that will depend on the driver. i was just sayin what mine put down on a dynojet