I purchased full gsr front/rear brakes with sway bars, LCA's, etc.. They came off a 97 GSR with around 135k miles. I want to strip everything down for prime/paint and to replace all of the bushings. Do you know of anyone who sells a full OE bushing kit or would you go with an aftermarket bushing kit? Or a mixture of OE/Aftermarket bushings?? This will be going on my 92 Civic CX H/B.

Thanks!

Anthony

 

energy suspension

 

I don't see any reason to stay away from an aftermarket setup.

 

You cant go wrong with anything from Energy Suspension. They make great products.

You will definitely feel a very noticeable difference between stock and polyurethane bushings...

 

go with ES, i have had it on my suspension now for a year and i am very pleased.
alittle stiffer, but a better response.

 

ES still good for daily driving? I've read about it being too bumpy and the bushings get torn up

Anthony

 

Polyurethane will turn to sh*t after 2-3 years. My shifter bushings were crumbling and falling apart after 5 years, and that's not even a high load-bearing bushing like the ones on the suspension. I've seen several posts of ITR guys running them and they were trashed after just a couple of years, even with regular greasing. Polyurethane tends to only allow movement in one direction, and some bushings need to move in more than one direction, or they'll bind.

New OEM rubber, or aftermarket hard rubber will be your best bet. Contrary to popular belief, rubber bushings WILL last the longest in a daily-driven street applications that sees all sorts of weather and road conditions. My original 8-yr old rubber shifter bushings that were in before the poly ones I put in weren't nearly as worn out as those poly ones were after only 5 years.

Whatever you do, do not put a polyurethane trailing arm bushing in. Those will bind up and the car will not handle properly.

I will NEVER put another polyurethane bushing in any car I own in the future.


Modified by PatrickGSR94 at 10:06 PM 8/23/2008

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PatrickGSR94 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
New OEM rubber, or aftermarket hard rubber will be your best bet. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Know any companies that sell an OEM/hard rubber bushing kit?

The Honda stuff will be quite expensive..

 

This place recently became a US distributor of HardRace hard rubber bushings. Alot of people have been wanting these as an alternative to OEM or Mugen bushings, but they have been kind of hard to find until now.

http://specialprojectsms.com/i...D=111

 

They pretty good I am guessing? Looks like it includes pretty much everything

 

i've had energy bushings in my vette since 2002 and it sees regular track days. not a single problem one with rot or any issue. the rear trailing arms are poly in the teg and so are the sway bushings. i definately vote enegry suspension.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by idrivesideways &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i've had energy bushings in my vette since 2002 and it sees regular track days. not a single problem one with rot or any issue. the rear trailing arms are poly in the teg and so are the sway bushings. i definately vote enegry suspension. </TD></TR></TABLE>

your Integra would handle better with rubber RTA bushings.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PatrickGSR94 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

your Integra would handle better with rubber RTA bushings.</TD></TR></TABLE>




not to mention...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by idrivesideways &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> in my vette since 2002n. </TD></TR></TABLE>

This is an Integra forum, not a 'vette forum.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by idrivesideways &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i've had energy bushings in my vette since 2002 and it sees regular track days. not a single problem one with rot or any issue. the rear trailing arms are poly in the teg and so are the sway bushings. i definately vote enegry suspension. </TD></TR></TABLE>

The rear trailing arm bushings being polyurethane may explain why your integra handles like garbage. They're not for anything except for drag use. They don't allow proper suspension oscillation or deflection. You're insane for having those in there. They don't come with the master kit for a REASON.

OP: http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com has OEM bushings sold seperately from the arms (for civics anyway). The integra should use the same bushings as the 92-95 civic.

I'm 95% sure they're the same. If not, then search on honda tech for "OEM parts suppliers". Or PM username NOFX. She did a whole post on where to get OEM parts for acuras and hondas.

Polyurethane bushings had too much bump harshness for me. I'll never use them again. If yours is a street car, buy rubber bushings. Your spine will thank you when you're 40.

 

go to the race track. look at the cars that run, you will see energy bushings in many of them. seriously, get your butt off the internet for a day and hangout with people who actually race. poly bushings are common. that load of crap about not being able to move is nuts. do you know how much force a 2600lb car exirts at .90g? those bushings move, they just don't flex all over the place like rubber. my rear tire wear is noticeably better since they were replaced. also to captain obvious who pointed out that this isn't a vette forum. energy makes both bushings, the comment was on longivity.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by idrivesideways &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">go to the race track. look at the cars that run, you will see energy bushings in many of them. seriously, get your butt off the internet for a day and hangout with people who actually race. poly bushings are common. that load of crap about not being able to move is nuts. do you know how much force a 2600lb car exirts at .90g? those bushings move, they just don't flex all over the place like rubber. my rear tire wear is noticeably better since they were replaced. also to captain obvious who pointed out that this isn't a vette forum. energy makes both bushings, the comment was on longivity. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Hmm...I've been to a lot of race tracks. A lot of times. I just averaged out that my S2000 sees 1 track day every 1000 miles. I've had it for 11K miles. Out of the months that I drive it (14 months so far. It's stored in the winter), that's about 1 track day every 1.272 months.

You're trying to give us factual information based on cars you've seen at a race track?

Try using your eyes to correlate some other information.

Have you looked at the stock swiss cheese nature of the trailing arm bushing? It's made that way so that the trailing arm can oscillate side to side, move back and forth, and move up and down. The solid polyurethane does not allow that type of movement. The result is either the chassis flexing, other bushings flexing, or the suspension being overly harsh because it cannot move.

Either way you look at it, it will be unfavorable for proper suspension geometry and movement.

Think about how the trailing arm has to pivot to it's side or slightly fore or aft as the control arm goes through it's normal motions. Think about it as a solid member of a shape with definate proportions. The perimeter of said shape has to be the same because it's made of metal and not jello. That is to say, if you move one leg or member of the shape, the other legs or members have to move into position to keep the perimeter the same. The perimeter changes a little bit in a real world situation because bushings have some deflection...but lets negate that.

The big trailing arm bushing from energy makes the entire trailing arm unable to move the way it needs to. You can't do that. It would be like having a solid shoulder. Sure, it's unbreakable and doesn't move and feels real solid...but now you can't move your arm.

Hmm...maybe it was something I learned in engineering school...or just common sense after looking at an object.

Either way, you're wrong.

The large trailing arm bushing from energy is not meant for street use. This is not only common knowledge..but it's information available from energy.

The other ones do provide a tighter overall feeling...but I'd rather not have the car ride like a skateboard.

Polyurethane is a bit of a compromise. You get a shitty ride, but still get deflection. F that. If I was building a track car, I'd do everything in pillowball and spherical metal. I drive street cars that I use for the track. I use rubber bushings.

I'm never wrong. But you can keep trying to prove me wrong anyway. Although, in the process, you will get flustered, spell words wrong, and sound like an idiot.




Modified by B serious at 2:14 PM 8/26/2008


Modified by B serious at 2:15 PM 8/26/2008

 

lol, you have a good point. from a general feel behind the wheel the best way i can describe the change is similar to a slight increase in spring rate. i actually like how the car feels with poly bushings. however, what you type does make sense. i guess a person would have to try both directions and find what they enjoy driving with the most. my prefrence is with a tight car that can be adjusted with spring rates. i mean, how much can the bushings effect rear suspension movement versus spring rate?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by idrivesideways &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">lol, you have a good point. from a general feel behind the wheel the best way i can describe the change is similar to a slight increase in spring rate. i actually like how the car feels with poly bushings. however, what you type does make sense. i guess a person would have to try both directions and find what they enjoy driving with the most. my prefrence is with a tight car that can be adjusted with spring rates. i mean, how much can the bushings effect rear suspension movement versus spring rate? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Well the issue here is that a suspension member cannot move as it was supposed to. This creates an issue with a lot of things. If you're using it for street driving or anything besides just glass surface smooth drag racing, you're eventually going to break or tear something.

If it's the bushing, you'll be lucky. It will most likely result in your UCA or LCA extracting themselves from the chassis or the trailing arm to bend.

To over simplify the design, the UCA, LCA, trailing arm and chassis make a box shape that can be seen from the back of the car.

Draw a square box. Imagine you're looking at the suspesion geometry from the back of the car dead on.

Imagine the top of the box is the UCA. The bottom of the box is the LCA. The Right leg is the chassis. The left leg is the trailing arm.

Put a perpendicular mark about half way up in the left leg (trailing arm) to represent the bushing holder. This is a 2d representation..so you have to draw it this way.

Now keep in mind the chassis can't move.

Move the upper and lower sides of the box as if you just hit a bump. The LCA and UCA will go up in unison. Notice that for the shape to move and still keep the same dimension, the left leg has to angle over. Notice that it is no longer perpendicular to the bushing line you just drew.

Now imagine that the left leg can't angle over because the bushing itself won't let it angle. Now the box can't move without forcing something else to stretch or shrink when it's not suposed to.

That's what's going on with your integra.

Remove that big trailing arm energy bushing. Replace with stock.

 

Bserious where did you go to school and what kind of engineering do you have your degree(s) in? I'm also an engineering major and I love the aspect you bring to these discussions, I like the way you think

 

heh I tend to think the same way as B, in little diagrams and stuff. I'm in architecture and I tend to visualize stuff in 3D alot (I also spend 10+ hours/day using 3D design software).

I think of the trailing arm as teeter-tottering like a seesaw, with the RTA bushing as the pivot point. But then each end of the TA is also trying to rotate about different length arms (LCA and toe compensator arm). This requires the TA to rotate right/left slightly as it teeter-totters through the rear suspension's range of vertical motion.

I'm pretty sure that poly RTA bushings can cause the inside rear wheel to lift off the track during hard cornering. And simple physics says 4 tires gripping are better than 3. So if you have rubber bushings that keeps all 4 tires planted, that's going to be better than a binding bushing that lifts one tire up off the track surface.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDMguy88 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Bserious where did you go to school and what kind of engineering do you have your degree(s) in? I'm also an engineering major and I love the aspect you bring to these discussions, I like the way you think</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm still a student. NIU Industrial engineering. Hopefully, I'll have a freaking job in about a year.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PatrickGSR94 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">heh I tend to think the same way as B, in little diagrams and stuff. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, I also imagine naked ladies doing various mudane tasks like mowing lawns or dusting shelves or something at the same time.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B serious &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Well, I also imagine naked ladies doing various mudane tasks like mowing lawns or dusting shelves or something at the same time. </TD></TR></TABLE>

HA a multitasking engineer. With a sense of humor

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HONDRETTI &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">energy suspension </TD></TR></TABLE>

love em. that crap about LTA bushings binding isn't true either. i tested them in motion between these posts. i should also mention that they were installed correctly

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by idrivesideways &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

love em. that crap about LTA bushings binding isn't true either. i tested them in motion between these posts. i should also mention that they were installed correctly </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, it is true. How else would you explain people around here reporting BETTER handling around a road-race track with OEM-style rubber bushings (like Mugen) over the poly ones they took out?