Ok, I'm a new user here, and I only have 5 post a day, so I'm going to try to knock out all my problems at once. To start things, I have a 1996 Honda Accord DX (4cyl, 5 speed manual transmission). The car was running fine (still had the low idle as mentioned below, but no stalling etc), but then I had it set up for about a month while I replaced a broken brake line (long story).

Things to consider: This is my first honda and I haven't had it for long. I have some mechanical skill so I should be able to fix most things on my own.

Here goes:
1) very low idle, about 250-500 rpms (the low idle started after I replaced my upper O2 sensor to remedy the searching the car did and the check engine light. Before the car had a higher idle), stalls at times when clutch is depressed. I think it might be the electronic idle control something or other. I mechanically adjusted it via the 2 nuts on the cable, which would fix it for a moment, then it seemed that it was reset to the old 250-500 rpms. A friend said I might need to run some carb cleaner, or better yet mass air flow sensor cleaner through the idle control valve thingy and that it should clean things out.

2) Bucking and unsteady rpms at constant speed (I think I got bad gas, so this probably isn't a real problem), however, it seems to be remedied for a bit when I get out and open the gas cap and the pressure is released (i.e. loud hissing when cap is removed). This could also be me going crazy. My friend said the hissing is normal because the car has some sort of electronic gas recirculation thing?

3) Rattle from what appears to be the "woven" section of the exhaust before the rear axle. Pressure on it seems to make it slightly quieter. Not sure what the problem is but I'm tempted to put a few hose claps on it to apply pressure to quiet it, but I have this gut feeling that that is a terrible idea. The rattle occurs at exactly 1,750 rpms.

4) Brakes are a complete mushy mess. They were working fine, but one day I got a hole in the rear passenger hard line running under the car (and oddly the gas tank at the same time). I replaced the line (from the engine compartment to the rear brake, and bled the brakes. I'm not loosing fluid but they are really soft, but hard sometimes for the first brake after start up. I re-bled what seemed to be the trouble line and it helped just a little. Should I just bleed them all again at the same time? Or am i getting some sort of air lock in the master cylinder that needs a different solution?

5) Temperature stops at about 1/3 from the middle notch on the temp gauge. Took out the thermostat and it had a messed up inner gasket, I replaced it and when I turn the car on it still doesn't get to the middle of the gauge which appears to be opperating temp for every other car in the world. Could it be that my gauge is broken, because I plugged in a friends obdII device, and it said I was running about 190*F even though the gauge wasn't to the middle mark.

6) The check engine light is on for the downstream O2 sensor. Should I replace it? I fear it might be the cause of some of these problems (low idle etc.) but I thought that the upstream sensor did all the hard work?

Thanks for all the help in advance, let me know if you need me to clear anything up!


EDIT: The exhaust also makes a low-ish grumble (almost like it's bogging down, yet almost like a "sport" exhaust) anything above3k rpms when flooring it. Not sure if it is normal for these cars, or if it's because the O2 sensor is causing it to run in some sort of "safe mode" where under full throttle it dumps as much gas in as possible.

MORE: After actually using the pesky search button, I found this in the FAQ: "*NOTE: If you changed the brake lines or other upgrade where air was introduced to the braking system, I highly recommend that you re-bleed the brakes again after about 2 days of driving." Hopefully that'll be the trick for the brakes.


Modified by nnamssorxela at 8:25 PM 8/4/2008


Modified by nnamssorxela at 9:13 PM 8/4/2008

 

Still looking for some advice...

I think I might need to clean the IACV, FITV, TB, and EGR port, but I'm not too sure. Also, what is the service check system (SCS) connector? I read that when this is unplugged it allows the idle to get low? I put a new thread in the forum because a search yielded no results.

(mine is just dangling there but where does it go?)

 

If i put each problem in a separate thread would that help? I have a feeling everyone clicks on it, sees how long it is, then doesn't bother reading...

 

Yes replace your Secondary O2 that should clear up 2 of your issues #1 & 2. Don't forget to reset your ECU after you replace the O2 sensor. FYI, the two nuts that are on your throttle cable are not for adjusting your idle. They are for adjusting the slack in your throttle cable.

While your replacing the O2 sensor you should look into cleaning the IACV, FITV, Throttle body and EGR. It is time consuming but you will see the benefits of following this thread. Click Here! This thread also contains the proper way to adjust your idle. Oh and that blue SCS connector doesn't actually plug into anything. There should be a blue clip on the bottom of the clove box that it sits in. If it's not there just tuck the connector up out of the way. It should only be jumpered when you are retrieving Diagnostic Trouble Codes or setting your base idle & or ignition.

You could put clamps on there or you could replace the pipe. If it is rattling it probably needs to be replaced or will fail very soon. But before you do that make sure that all of the rubber exhaust mounts are connected to the chassis and that it's not jsut rattleing up against the heat shield.

Bleed your entire brake system. 96 Dx you should have the conventional brakes (non ABS) correct?
If so here is the sequence to bleed them:
1. Passengers side rear
2. Drivers side front
3. Drivers side rear &
4. Passengers side front
Do not allow your brake reservoir to go dry.

If you hooked up a scanner and you are running at temp I would say to leave the gauge as is. Does it go from cold to warm gradually? If it does I would leave it.


Modified by GhostAccord at 12:35 PM 8/5/2008

 

The hissing sound is normal. Gas is kept in underground tanks which are relatively cool compared to being in a car's metal gas tank in the middle of the summer. The noise is just air and fumes escaping after they've expanded in the tank cause it's hot

My temp gauge stays at about the same place as yours so you should be fine. Unless it jumps around, or it's stuck at that spot, you should be fine.

 

Here's another really long post so I don't waste any more of my 5 today:

Thanks for all the help. I tried to thank you earlier but I had already reached my 5 post max for the day...haha.


I found all the FAQ earlier, I just wasn't sure if I needed to do them...and I didn't. I took out and cleaned the Idle Air Control Valve (IACV), Fast Idle Thermo Valve (FITV) and did a half arsed clean of the Throttle Body (TB) (i.e. opening the butterfly valve, spraying in carb cleaner in, and wiping up dust and carb cleaner as far as my fingers would go: juuust past the the butterfly valve. I didn't think the carb was the problem as it looked fairly clean and I still need my toothbrush). All of this has had no affect on the idle, but I haven't driven the car yet so I don't know about the constant surging.

As for the brakes, the FAQ section for bleeding brakes says to do the order: "Brake bleeding sequence: 1) Driver side front, 2) passenger side front, 3) passenger side rear, 4) driver side rear." However I did it your way, as that was how I was taught as well. The brakes seem to be doing fine.

The temp gauge slowly gets up to temp, which is abt 2/3 ish from the 1/2 way point, so I'll leave it alone.

For the exhaust I think I might try the clamp method just for the day to see if that's the problem. It almost seems like there is debris in the woven section on the back portion of the exhaust, or that the parts inside the woven section are touching each other. I might see if I can take it apart and dump out/inspect anything in there. The exhaust looks pretty ragged right at the flex woven section joints, it might be leaking under load causing the lower grumble sound at higher RPMs.

Course that grumbling could really be stumbling which leads me to the egr port:

I was going to clean the EGR port as well as replace the spark plug tube seals (usual oil on spark plug ((possibly a cause of and stumbling?))), but I might just hold off until I get an O2 sensor and see if that remedies all my problems, of course, I might just do it tomorrow as it doesn't look too difficult (I'm just afraid of the fuel rail), and the egr port cleaning is free, while the O2sensor is not.

And finally, I kinda feel stupid for asking these 2, but:
1) to reset the ecu, you just unplug the battery for 30mins or so then start it up for normal, or do I need to turn the key to acc for about 15 sec and then I'm done. I think it was for something else, but I read on here somewhere that you let it warm up until the fan comes on then it's done?

2) How do I tell if I have a "bubble" in the cooling system? On my other car (non honda) it has no radiator fill cap, only a reservoir to fill with the max and min marks, and to bleed the system, there is a little nipple fitting near the thermostat (upper radiator hose in this case) that you open until fluid comes out with no bubbles. Is there a nipple fitting I'm just not seeing on my accord? or do I just fill the radiator up to the top, run for a little bit, then make sure it's still topped off?

Thanks again for all the help.

 

make sure you tighten up the valve in the FITV If your car is equipped.

the service connector shouldnt be on a 96 that would be the OBDII connector
OBDI vehicles have the blue connector. Which if i remember right yours is behind the ashtray.

and a bad exhaust leak will make it run pretty poor.

your coolant temp sensor or your thermostat is your cooling problem. its very easy for parts pullers to mix up parts, but also if your CTS was going bad it could say 190 on the scan tool and be 300 on the engine.

run it with the cap off and the radiator full untill the thermostat opens and draws the coolant in the radiator down, then top it off and put the cap on. you can also use the bleeder valve if it has one, open it untill you have nothing but coolnt coming out( with the engine off) then tighten it back up.

 

To reset the ecu, unplug the 7.5 amp back up fuse for 10 seconds then put it back in and your all done. Or just unhook the battery for a minute or so.

For the radiator. There's a bleed bolt on the thermostat housing, open it up. Fill up the radiator till no air is coming out of the bleed bolt. Close it. Fill up the reservoir to the full mark. Run the engine till the upper radiator hose is hot, or when the thermostat opens. Turn the car off and let it cool down. Open the radiator and fill it back up you could squeeze the upper radiator hose to make sure you get out any air, put the cap back on the radiator and you're good to go.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hon2984 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the service connector shouldnt be on a 96 that would be the OBDII connector
OBDI vehicles have the blue connector. Which if i remember right yours is behind the ashtray.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm not sure why people assume the 96 Accords don't have the SCS connector. Yes they do have the blue 2 pin SCS connector and yes you can even retrieve OBD1 codes by shorting it. I have done it on my Canadian 96 Ex Accord on many occasions. Yes the 96 Accord is OBD2 but it still works. Maybe it's only the Canadian models that have it.

nnamssorxela,

I haven't read the FAQ's on the brake bleeding but the way I posted you will find in the CD7 Honda Shop manual for the Non-ABS system.

Reset the ECU as described above pull the back up fuse for 30 seconds or disconnect the (-) battery terminal, for 30 seconds.

If you are still having a surging idle after cleaning everything. Check for vacuum leaks around your intake and throttle body gaskets and check all of your vacuum hoses. I didn't realize that you had a surging idle, you had mentioned a low idle. A bubble in the cooling line could also cause an erratic idle once the car has warmed up. Use the bleeder screw located on the top of the thermostat housing to bleed the cooling system.

 

hon2984- yes the car has the obdII behind the ash tray, and it also has the blue clip. The exhaust leak, if there is one, is not bad enough to cause the car to run poorly.
I replaced the thermostat with a new one, and the car has the same temp. No fluid excessive fluid boils into overflow tank, so the temp just seems to be...well low. And I'll try to find a bleeder valve.

rhdins- I'll look for the valve, but are there markings on the overflow tanks? Because there's no "reservoir" per say, just the overflow. I'll try pulling the fuse next time so I don't loose my radio presets

Ghost- unplug the (-) terminal? I always thought it was the (+) one? Sorry, I meant a surging steady rpm when moving, but again it's more than likely bad gas. The idle is just really low (1st click or around there on the tach).

I'm going to probably just do the O2 sensor and see what happens.

Thanks again for all the help.

 

First thing we learned in school was always disconnect the ground cable (-) before you do anything electrical. That works the same for resetting the ECU if you are going to use the battery reset method. Sorry I forgot to mention that your radio will also clear if you use this method

Good luck with replacing your SHO2S. That's a tough one to get at. Hope after all this it clears up your issue.

 

Really? I was always taught to take of positive, then ground....but who knows. Yeah, I knew the presets would clear, it's no biggie. I might just find someone with my year accord and "borrow" their down stream O2 sensor and see it it works.

Two more things, I will just be editing this single post so that I can essentially have more than 5 posts a day. The other thing is: what the heck does putting a fabric wrist band around the brake and clutch master cylinders do? Keep your car from sweating? (You see it on the modded cars).

EDIT: Ah, I see, the only think I like in my engine bay is rust and leafs.

...and to be able to check my fluid levels without undressing my car.


Modified by nnamssorxela at 8:42 AM 8/6/2008

 

Those sweat bands are all about how some individuals like their rice cooked!