Hi! I'm tossing around the idea of playing with sway bars / tie bars / strut braces to aid my handling at auto-x. I don't want to lower the car yet as it will bump me up in classes (we run a modified version of the SCCA rules).

I drive a bone-stock 07 Civic EX (coupe), and run 16" RSX rims on Azenis RT-615 tires at the events in 205/40/16 size (10% smaller overall diameter than stock)... which also means the car sits 1.25" closer to the ground.

I believe my standard stabilizer bars (aka sway bars?) are 25.4 front / 11.0 rear. Will it be worth my while to upgrade any of the stock sway bars? What about adding strut tower braces and lower tie bars? Lastly, will any of these mods require an alignment? (this is also my daily-driver, so an agressive alignment isn't really an option).

For next year, I do plan on doing a proper suspension setup and also running R-compound tires, but for this year, I'm trying to focus on improving my driving, and hoping a few little modifications such as the ones above will help me along the way.

Thanks for your input.

 

I would stay away from a serious R-compound tire, it only masks up your flaws in your driving. I am sure that will totally bump you into a new class as well. I run street tires so I can stay in STS. Depending on what your trying to achieve as far as turn in and if you are feeling like you need to get more rotation around the turns, then adding a larger swaybar in the rear will help with that. Tie-bars and strut bars, won't really make an impact on your car like the sway bars will, and by the time you buy the strut bars and tie bars you would've spent a whole lot of money and ended up unsatisfied with the fact your car doesn't handle a whole lot better, like it would with larger sways. You mentioned using 615s, you can always play with tire pressures, and that is a free mod. You didn't mention a thing about brakes, but a better set of pads, as well as stainless brake lines will give you much better feedback as far as braking capabilities go. I don't know if your allowed to use adjustable shocks or springs, but better rates and dampening adjustment will help you out. You didn't specify what the rules really are so I am trying to give you the best info possible. And as always, if you wanna go faster, just get more seattime.

 

Thanks for your input.

Perhaps I should have posted the rules! I am currently in Class E with 8 points for the Azenis RT-615's I have on the car.

I can accumulate up to 14 points in this class; 15 or more and I get bumped... so I'd like to remain in E (this is my rookie season after all).

Therefore, I can accumulate 6 more points. Here are the points for the mods that are feasible:

Suspension/Brakes
1. Performance shocks +2
2. Adjustable shocks +5 (Cannot be selected with Performance shocks)
3. Performance/Lowering Springs +3
4. Full coilover suspension +10 (cannot be selected with other spring/shock combinations)
5. Changed/Added anti-sway bars +3
6. Camber plates/bolts/arms +3
7. Relocated suspension mount points +8
8. Performance brake pads +1

A little note on brakes: we run in a relatively small parking lot most of the time... there isn't a lot of braking involved and I find my stock brakes (with only 15K miles on them) more than adequate. Brakes are not getting upgraded this year.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 405hp &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
1. Performance shocks +2
3. Performance/Lowering Springs +3
8. Performance brake pads +1[/I] (being hawk HP+)
</TD></TR></TABLE>

or

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 405hp &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
5. Changed/Added anti-sway bars +3
6. Camber plates/bolts/arms +3
</TD></TR></TABLE>

not sure if either of them will give you a more substantial improvement over the other but I would go shocks/springs. But then if its lowered depending on how much the camber may be 2 severe and start 2 hinder performance. but usually(with civics I have put suspension on) the car squats and a slight negative camber is created from the lowering so it might be beneficial... as long as front is even and rear is even.

 

I was trying to stay away from springs/shocks/coilovers for now. That's next season.

 

do you have 6 points total or just for this season? and next season are going to class up cause with 6 points you cant really lower the car and upgrade sways

 

6 points remaining for this season's setup. (I am allowed up to 14 points in my class. I currently have 8 for the tires, leaving me room to accumulate 6 more points before getting bumped classes.)

I'm classing-up next year into D-class, so I'm waiting until then to do the full suspension setup (springs/shocks/coilovers + R-comps).

 

I would just plan your mods for next class not this 1, since your planning on making the jump next year anyways the mods you choose 2 stay in this class are different then the best for the next class. So I would just plan your car for next season and ride out the 2nd half of this season like you are now and gain experience.

if you haven't been competitive in the class till 1/2 way through the season theres not point in pushing the point limit for 1/2 a season.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 405hp &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thanks for your input.
Suspension/Brakes
1. Performance shocks +2
2. Adjustable shocks +5 (Cannot be selected with Performance shocks)
3. Performance/Lowering Springs +3
4. Full coilover suspension +10 (cannot be selected with other spring/shock combinations)
5. Changed/Added anti-sway bars +3
6. Camber plates/bolts/arms +3
7. Relocated suspension mount points +8
8. Performance brake pads +1
</TD></TR></TABLE>

These rules make absolutely no sense to me.

The typical GC and Koni setup is 10 points (full coilover). However, go get a set of Bilstein's custom valved without adjusters (performance shocks, +2), and pair them with a set of custom springs that aren't on threaded perches (lowering springs, +3), and while you spent 5X the money, you would have a better setup only counting as 5 points...

 

Any rules that refer to height adjustable dampers as "full coilovers" are questionable

 

save your money and do you work over the winter and bump up then.

 

Well, we know the car is under steering, so...

A rear sway bar would probably help it rotate around the corners, leave the stock front for now.

OR run Koni Sports with stock springs. They will be a +5, but they will help you dial out the under steer, should help overall handling, and will be useful next year with some GC coil-overs. (probably your better option, unless you were planning on some high $ coil overs next year)


I wonder what swapping everything to Si spec parts would do....

 

There is no reason why you should be autoxing with stock sway bars, front or rear. Pick up a set of adjustables and find a setting that not only feels good but gets you the best times.
Strut bars are a cheap, easy and effective mod - do front and rear if you don't mind losing the trunk functionality. That will tighten up the car quite a bit.

 

Thanks for the advice guys.

 

I have an ACE body Civic ('07 FA5) and I autoX (in my '87 CRX Si).

The ACE body is the stiffest car that Honda has ever made, so I would save your points on strut braces. While they may be a help, this car is damn stiff to start with and you can use those points for something else.

I would get the BIGGEST rear sway bar available for your car. My Si has traction control and is fairly neutral (not that I push my street car that hard) but without traction control the understeer is a killer on all stock Hondas. Stick with the stock front bar.

After that- TIRES TIRES TIRES TIRES. Did I mention TIRES? Quality rubber always makes a huge difference.

Scott

 

So I have completed my setup for this year.

Stock
+ RSX rims
+ 205/40-16 Azenis RT-615's
+ Progress 22mm rear sway-bar
+ Ingalls front camber kit (camber -2.0/-1.4 front/rear)

The car handles very well considering it's on stock springs/dampers. I can get the rear to oversteer a little with lift-thottle oversteer and braking while slightly turning. I'm very content with the setup, and have maxed out the mod points allowable in my clas!

 

The best and most simple modification for what you are looking for is an upgraded rear sway bar. Progress makes a solid rear sway that is 22mm in diamater (I believe the stock Si rear bar is 17 or 18mm in diameter).

EDIT: Nevermind, you already have the rear bar! Missed that!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 405hp &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> for this year, I'm trying to focus on improving my driving, and hoping a few little modifications such as the ones above will help me along the way.

Thanks for your input. </TD></TR></TABLE>

more events is the easiest thing to do for better autoX times, try and ride with other good drivers and try and have them ride with or watch you on course.