I have a GSR swap in a 99 Honda Civic with a 60 trim turbo, 750cc injectors, and Hondata S300. It's a fully built motor, but I bought the car like this with what I was told to be a "rich" tune.

WOT at 18psi, I'm seeing AFR's of 12.3 - 12.7, give or take a little. I'm not use to tuning with Hondata or too incredibly familiar with it's tuning window. How rich is this or how lean? I'm used to DSM's where the tuning window was 11.5 or so. 12.5ish sounds a little too lean to me. Is this okay, and do I still have room to play with?

Also, can anyone reference me some good links to help out with trying to tune on my Hondata S300?

 

The true answer depends on fuel octane, compression ratio, intake air temperatures etc. For a general safe tune on pump gas I would recommend targeting 11.7:1-12.0:1

To learn how to use your s300 system, try downloading the smanager software & reading the Help documenation built in the software.

 

Tuning is tricky. I take it you have a wideband hooked up? Having a tune 12.3-12.7 all the time is very rich but during boost thats perfect. If your on the freeway cruising at 80 and your not in boost your just wasting gas. I like to have .94-1.00 lambda or 14.2-14.7 a/f cruising. I would highly suggest you read up on hondata tuning aspects. If your not up to learning this (its hard) just pay a GOOD tuner. Better to spend $400 on a tune rather then spending 5k on a new motor.

 

yeah i read up on it all the time and its just confusing as hell. i do wanna learn it but at the same time i dont wanna f**k up my car tryin to learn.

 

I would suggest paying a tuner to tune your car. Then save the tune they make for you on your laptop. Once thats done you can mess around with the car all you want and you will always have the "good known" tune to go back to if you get lost.

 

12.5-12.7 is pretty lean. I usually tune for ~11.0-11.5

What wideband are you using? Do you have any exhaust leaks? How old is the sensor? Make sure these questions are answered before you go messing with the tune.

 

11.5 - 11.7 is usually what I would tune my Turbo Eclipse for. I wasn't sure if it would be the same for this one. The reason I was curious in the first place, is while I have no EGT gauge, I'm sure they're way up there. My car gets pretty hot, pretty quickly (already investing in an aluminum radiator) and I figured it was too lean. I've only ever heard of running a lean tune like that pre-boost to promote quicker turbo spool, then fattening it back up to an 11.7 AFR.

Also, this is not on the topic of the AFR, but since it's my thread....

What's up with the secondary tables of the S300? I'm gathering the primary tables are more or less your 'cruise' tables. You're low-throttle scoot around town tune. Then the secondary tables are your WOT, all-***** shift tables with boost. Currently, my tune is setup for only the primary tables. When I activated the secondary tables in an attempt to try and lean out my WOT pulls (they're super rich, like high 10's low-low 11's) it wouldn't let me adjust any of the fuel values and caused some really nasty bucking when under WOT and full boost after VTEC kicked in. Any helpful info you can pass?

 

Yeah that is a bit lean...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mtber &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The true answer depends on fuel octane, compression ratio, intake air temperatures etc. For a general safe tune on pump gas I would recommend targeting 11.7:1-12.0:1</TD></TR></TABLE>

He said. Every setup is different and we can only recommend a general AF.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civicboy1128 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">11.5 - 11.7 is usually what I would tune my Turbo Eclipse for. I wasn't sure if it would be the same for this one. The reason I was curious in the first place, is while I have no EGT gauge, I'm sure they're way up there. My car gets pretty hot, pretty quickly (already investing in an aluminum radiator) and I figured it was too lean. I've only ever heard of running a lean tune like that pre-boost to promote quicker turbo spool, then fattening it back up to an 11.7 AFR.

Also, this is not on the topic of the AFR, but since it's my thread....

What's up with the secondary tables of the S300? I'm gathering the primary tables are more or less your 'cruise' tables. You're low-throttle scoot around town tune. Then the secondary tables are your WOT, all-***** shift tables with boost. Currently, my tune is setup for only the primary tables. When I activated the secondary tables in an attempt to try and lean out my WOT pulls (they're super rich, like high 10's low-low 11's) it wouldn't let me adjust any of the fuel values and caused some really nasty bucking when under WOT and full boost after VTEC kicked in. Any helpful info you can pass?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Find a tuner and let him tune your car...if not your going to go boom.

 

I hate replies like that. Not to dog on your advice, as it is your advice, but this isn't a "Do you think I should tune it myself or should I pay someone to do it" thread.

I'm looking for helpful information or a helpful nudge in the right direction. Yes, this is my first turbo Honda (damn near my first Honda all together), but I never have once sent a mildly built, 11-second DSM to another mechanic to be built or tuned and I won't do it with this car either. Your time is appreciated though, vtecspeed1320.

Anyway, thanks for anyone else who chymed in. I believe most of my questions have been answered except for those S300 secondaries, which I'll figure out through the Help section of SManager. Just wanted to double-check that I wasn't completely retarded when it came to AFR tuning.

 

You cant even work your way around hondata's software to get it to change your fuel maps, what makes you think your going to tune your car.

Here is your answer.

Take your vtec set the crossover to 7800, tune your car on low map till around the 6000 rpm mark. Then set your vtec crossover at 2800 tune your car all the way to redline. Then make your vtec cross over a point somewhere in between 2800 and 7800 and you will have a fully fuel tuned car. Cntrl+I, means adds 1% of fuel to your highlighted area, Cntrl+D means it decreases 1% of fuel to highlighted area, and if you hit Cntrl+U it will upload your map to your ecu. And if your smart you will pull some plugs and make sure everything looks good with them.

Good luck and hope it doesnt go boom.

 

I do know how to change the fuel maps, but I'm not completely familiar with this software. I've used DSMlink on DSM's, which is similar as this, but not quite as advanced. DSMlink is a little more user friendly, where as Hondata is more complex and a little more time consuming. I'm making little steps as I go. I understand how to increase and decrease the fuel parameters for given areas of the map.

What I am most confused about, however, is that I can only access the secondary fuel/ignition mapping when the vehicle isn't running. From what I'm USED to from DSMlink is having one fuel map (long-term/cruising) for your scoot around town kind of stuff. That's what we're trying to work out right now.

Then you have a secondary table (short-term/WOT), or secondary fuel/ignition map. Am I correct in assuming that's what this secondary table is? In the other software I'm used to, you would set the TPS sensor for say 70%. At 70% throttle, the ECU would switch to the 'secondary table'/ short-term fuel and ignition trims and then use those for the heavier, boosted pulls. Is this not how Hondata works as well?

Also, can you explain to me in a little more detail why I would set my VTEC to engage in such a point in the rpm band, tune, then switch it down low, tune, and then throw it where I feel it might make the most power (or prove on a dyno)? I don't quite understand this method, so a little clarification would be extremely appreciated.

I'm not trying to sound mean, I just want to do this on my own a little by little because a tuner is very expensive as oppoosed to applying a little common sense and practical application and saving myself lots of money as well as gaining the know-how to do this when the weather changes. And it frequently does down here.

Thanks!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civicboy1128 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What I am most confused about, however, is that I can only access the secondary fuel/ignition mapping when the vehicle isn't running.

Then you have a secondary table (short-term/WOT), or secondary fuel/ignition map. Am I correct in assuming that's what this secondary table is? In the other software I'm used to, you would set the TPS sensor for say 70%. At 70% throttle, the ECU would switch to the 'secondary table'/ short-term fuel and ignition trims and then use those for the heavier, boosted pulls. Is this not how Hondata works as well?

Also, can you explain to me in a little more detail why I would set my VTEC to engage in such a point in the rpm band, tune, then switch it down low, tune, and then throw it where I feel it might make the most power (or prove on a dyno)? I don't quite understand this method, so a little clarification would be extremely appreciated!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Take you time man. You can keep the car running, just not logging to make changes in the high speed cam table. When it is logging, it is mapping "real" time and following the cells that the car is currently running in. The reason behind tuning the car with the vtec point set high is to get all the proper AFs thru the rpm band and load. Then set it low ( I normally don't go under 3500ish for NA/turbo cars, JR cars like the vtec really low so I tune the low speed cam around 3k).

Then when you put the car on the dyno to set the vtec point, you will have the AFs dialed in safely regarless of where you set the vtec point.