Hey guys, just looking to get to some honest opinions here... I've been a huge fan of Circuit racing for as long as I can remember, much more so than drag racing. But don't get me wrong I love both, but from a drivers perspective I find a lot more pleasure out of carving up the corners.
I've had my 88' Crx si since 1997 and I've done just about everything you can to it beside a full roll cage, and pull the interior out. I did the JDM interior BS and now have moved on from that... I fell in love with this car(my first car), and I still love this car just that I don't love my states emission laws! (Maryland) I've had to go through this BS every 2 years and for the past 6 years I've always gotten a waiver for my car since it's to low to fit on the rollers. Thus I could continue to do this for ever, but I'm not enjoying street driving my car as much as I use too, but I would definitely kick myself in the *** if I ever sold it...
So here's my thoughts... I was going to let the registration expire on the car, and begin focusing on just trailering the car for fun days at the track. At the moment I have no aspirations to race in any SCCA events or anything of that nature, but maybe in the future if I get addicted...

But here's my main question, currently sitting in the car is a b16 with Y1 LSD, and I have a 90% complete Ls/Vtec turbo swap waiting to go into the car. I'm riding on B&G S2 Coilovers with double springs, spoon braces all around, 16" Kosei K1's with Yokos, ACT flywheel, clutch, and the list goes on and on... I was looking to put the Ls/Vtec turbo in the car and get it tuned conservatively with more effort on response than peak power. I should have not problem belching out a little over 400whp at 14psi with this set-up...

But my biggest question is why I don't see more people on HT screwing around with turbocharged hondas at circuit tracks more often? Of course this will take several years to perfect the ideal set-up with balance, response, and something that I like... But I find it odd that I see these crazy VW turbo set-up's on other sites, and no one is focusing on turbo track day cars in the honda industry... Yeah I understand they came stock with turbos, but the Ls/Vtec is not stock it's fully built with stock dimensions.... I've seen a it seems like N/A and the roots blowers are the path of choice... I've pretty much made my mind up with the turbo motor as I already have it done for the most part...

Just wanted to see what you guys thought about my decision to pull this car off the street and focus my efforts on creating a uber fun circuit car? The main reason is that I feel I will enjoy the car much more when I can do what ever the hell I want to it, and not have to worry about state laws and when is the next emission inspection date(Which is October of this year)

Well thanks for listening to me ramble...

 

good luck with whatever you do with the car, but i only have one piece of advice.

don't let the tags just expire on the car. make sure you tell them that your car is sitting in a garage and you're restoring it and it will sit like this for a while. if you let the tags expire and then go to register it again, they're gonna hit you with late fees.

 

turbo hondas suck for track use. the heat generated is more than any of the parts were designed for. youll be blowing through brakes, cracking manifolds, burning hood paint, melting dip sticks and finding all the other issues that pop up when the underhood temps are more than the face of the sun.
yes, it has been done. mr legoman wins time attacks with his turbo eg and was driving it to and from up till lately and chris f used to race his turbo itr in HU. i know chris wouldnt go back and don...who knows about don. his tunAr is all about it tho.
me personally, i would take the car to the track exactly as it sits. the last thing u need as a n00b to track driving is a 400hp missle. the b16 will take u a long way and u will learn more important things that way (like how to drive a slow car)

 

+1 for everything Spencer said. It's a bad idea on multiple levels.

The idea of a fun track car isn't bad. However, that fun will be severely dampened by you fixing all the problems the turbo will make. Leave the B16, sell the LS stuff, spend the money on track time, enjoy the entire experience infinitely more.

Even if you don't follow our advice, shoot for something less than 400hp. That's really just friggin' silly. Don is damn close to some fast records with just over 250hp, and his car is an absolute monster.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Lo-Buck EF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> (like how to drive a slow car)</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah I'm one of the dumb ones that tried to road race a turbo Honda. Never again!

My N/A Prelude is a couple seconds faster than my Turbo ITR was at Mid-Ohio. FWIW. Once you heat up the intercooler and front tires, it stops being fun.

One thing I disagree with--- B16 in a CRX won't be slow on the track.

 

Hey guys, thanks for the advice! I'm probably going to keep it on the road as of now since I don't have a bunch of money laying around for a nice aluminum trailer(flat bed)...

Regardless of what engine I decide to use, I need to totally replace all of the stock bushings in the car, especially all of the ball joints as they are way over due for some urethane!

And I keep seeing these beautifully large short shifters, you know the ones that are at about steering wheel level... Who makes those and are they worth buying? I like the idea, you just move your right hand horizontally and your on the shifter...

Again thanks guys, and I will see about picking up a permanent waiver this year as they do have the ablity to hand those out. And since this will be 4th or 5th waiver for emission and I don't plan on changing the height/body style of the car, the worst thing the guy can tell me is that keep coming back every 2 years and we will give you another waiver...

Later fellas,

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mugencrxsir1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">And I keep seeing these beautifully large short shifters, you know the ones that are at about steering wheel level... Who makes those and are they worth buying? </TD></TR></TABLE>

I've got one from Fastline Performance. Don't like it though, too much left-right throw makes it a lot less accurate than the stock shifter. I've almost misshifted a few times because of it.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mugencrxsir1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I should have not problem belching out a little over 400whp at 14psi with this set-up...</TD></TR></TABLE>

As someone already said, 400whp in a tiny road race crx will probably be too much. You'll kill the front tires pretty quick. I'd say a 280-300whp setup with lots of midrange would be both faster/more controllable and easier on the front tires as you can use lower gears through corners.

Cooling is also an issue as mentioned. People have been using E85 for fuel with great success. It runs cooler than regular gas, so I'd look into getting the car tuned on that.

Opposed to some others I'm positive to a turbo fwd honda. I think it'll work if you build it right when it comes to cooling and turbo sizing. Midrange's more important than topend. Most people tend to run way too big turbos. You'll also need some massive front tires or full slics.

User "Austrian Type-R" have had an ITR turbo for years. Seems to work very well running on full slics:
http://video.google.com/videop...oHOCA

Has 360whp in that video if I remember correctly. He can probably give you a few pointers about what it takes to build a good road race honda.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Pompiuses &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I've got one from Fastline Performance. Don't like it though, too much left-right throw makes it a lot less accurate than the stock shifter. I've almost misshifted a few times because of it.


As someone already said, 400whp in a tiny road race crx will probably be too much. You'll kill the front tires pretty quick. I'd say a 280-300whp setup with lots of midrange would be both faster/more controllable and easier on the front tires as you can use lower gears through corners.

Cooling is also an issue as mentioned. People have been using E85 for fuel with great success. It runs cooler than regular gas, so I'd look into getting the car tuned on that.

Opposed to some others I'm positive to a turbo fwd honda. I think it'll work if you build it right when it comes to cooling and turbo sizing. Midrange's more important than topend. Most people tend to run way too big turbos. You'll also need some massive front tires or full slics.

User "Austrian Type-R" have had an ITR turbo for years. Seems to work very well running on full slics:
http://video.google.com/videop...oHOCA

Has 360whp in that video if I remember correctly. He can probably give you a few pointers about what it takes to build a good road race honda.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Wow nice ITR! Any info on his turbo size, boost levels, cams? Stock ITR with a 6-8 psi is my guess... But that's exactly what I want, I've always focused more on response/balance than over all power! And that's exactly what I have with my b16 as it sits now!

So does anyone else have any dislikes about the "Fastline Performance" Long shifter...

Again thank!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mugencrxsir1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wow nice ITR! Any info on his turbo size, boost levels, cams? </TD></TR></TABLE>

His motor back then was:
DRAG III turbo kit with a ramhorn manifold
Turbonetics Turbo, T3/T04e Hybrid .63 a/r / .54 a/r, stage 3 trim wheel
1.1 bar of boost --&gt; 360whp with that turbo
Stock itr head with crower valve springs and retainers
Forged rods and pistons

IMO that turbo is a bit too big for road racing on a B18C. Especially on slow courses. You can hear it lags a bit sometimes at corner exits in the movie as well.

 

i have an FLP shifter and love it.
as for the rest, DWYW.

 

DWYW!

 

Well the Tranny will stay the same with either motor, and I don't plan on messing around with gears or final drive as I like the Y1's close gears... Currently in the car is an ACT street disc with HD pressure plate, and ACT Streetlite Flywheel... When the turbo motor goes in I have the ACT XXR6... It's the extreme pressure plate with sprung 6 puck disc, and I plan on keeping the ACT streetlite flywheel provided it's in good shape, and I don't see why it wouldn't be... And even if it needs to be resurfaced I will just send it out...

Okay I can handle/deal with the heat from the turbo and ramhorn, but what about increased oil temps? What's everyone's take on an oil cooler, and turbo? I would think oil pressure would drop a little which is never good, but I wanted to know if any of you have first hand experience with this?

Here's a general run down of the Ls/Vtec, and yes according to you guys my turbo is a little big as it's around the same size as the ITR's turbo, but I'd like to make it work...

B18b Block
SRP Pistons
Hastings Rings
Eagle Rods w/ ARP bolts
ARP Studs
ACL Bearings
Moroso oil pan, OEM replacement with extra bungs...
Stealth Mode Performance Turbo Oil kit...

b16 head
Golden Eagle Ls/Vtec kit
Buddyclub Valve springs, rated 9500(Don't plan on going passed 8k)
Buddyclub retainers
Stock Valves, and Valve guides
GSR Cams
Edelbrock 5 bolt cam gears
Custom Intake Port Job on head
Stock Intake Manifold
Walbro 255lph pump
Precision 880cc injectors
BDL Fuel Rail
B&M Fuel Pressure Regulator
Hondata Intake gasket
Intercooler, 30x9x3.5
Turbonetics T3/T04e .63/.60 Stage 3
Custom Ramhorn, Ceramic coated and wrapped
Replaced all exhaust studs
Synapse BOV
Turbonetics Racegate 42mm
3" down pipe, with custom T304SS 3" exhaust
AEM Boost Controller
AEM Wideband
Greddy Turbo Timer
S200 Hondata w/boost, thinking about selling and buying AEM EMS
Battery relocated to trunk, emergency battery cut off switch(On/OFF)
Place Racing Front Cross Member
Fluidyne Radiator with Fal Fan

Suspension
B&G S2 Full Coilovers
Spoon braces, upper, lower, front and back
Stock everything else, I'm planning on replacing all of the bushing this winter with urethane
Kosei K1's, 16x7, rim weights 15lbs
Yokohoma Parada Spec 2, I'm sure these will be shitting on the track, but I like them on the street!

Brakes(Need to be upgraded to 4 disc)
S&P Dilled/Slotted Rotors, OEM size
Hawk pads
Stock Calipers, new remanufactured
S&P SS brake lines
Shitty rear drums, soon to be replaced with discs...
DOT 3 fluid, and I'm probably going to upgrade the Master Cylinder with something bigger...


This should give you guys an idea of where I'm at and where I need to go with improvements... I might look into ITR cams as they response so much quicker with a turbo, dyno graphs have proved this time and time again...

Alright let the flaming begin! Hopefully mostly constructive criticism, but this is HT!

Thanks Again,

 

i think chris f ran an aftermarket gready oil cooler, where as don runs an oem cooler. neither had oil related failures. either way your gonna see some high oil temps. i wouldnt worry about it unless they went into thehigh 300* mark. your gonna have to change oil way more frequent as the heat breakes it down very fast.
ACT
They have been known to break EF pedal assemblies and trannies, ect. if the pedal pressure gets way stiff, pull that PP out before you break something.

 

Really, I love ACT but I'm kind of bias as it's the only aftermarket I've ran on my cars... They are underrated from what I've seen as they can take a **** load of abuse, but I've driven CM and others, but I just gotten us to the ACT feel...

Thanks for the heads up on the pedal feel... If the pedal gets stiff woundn't that be more of the throw out bearing than the pressure plate? Something is binding regardless!

 

It's a bad idea for a track car that'll be on track more than once or twice a year. You'll break everything.

I ran a GT2871R on my B18C5 and was happy with the power / torque curve even with 9:1 compression.

You'll want more brake for that car. ITR brakes with expensive (Carbotech, Cobalt Friction) pads would last 1 weekend for front pads on my car.

Don't forget an LSD.

-Chris

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris F &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It's a bad idea for a track car that'll be on track more than once or twice a year. You'll break everything.

I ran a GT2871R on my B18C5 and was happy with the power / torque curve even with 9:1 compression.

You'll want more brake for that car. ITR brakes with expensive (Carbotech, Cobalt Friction) pads would last 1 weekend for front pads on my car.

Don't forget an LSD.

-Chris</TD></TR></TABLE>

Currently I will be sticking with the stock Y1 tranny and it has the OEM LSD... And from what I've seen they can hold up to a lot of abuse before they go as well, but I don't plan on replacing the stock LSD until it's done...

Yeah I like the ITR brake set up but I've seen some EF people with NSX set up and they swear by them... But I was also told in the past that they are practically the same... Just looking around for options, if I had the cash I would bling the car up with a full 11" fastbrakes kit... But even the ITR setup won't run me $1400+

Thanks

 

brakes-i have the ir set up. cost me like $200 plus new pads, rotors and lines. junk yard ftmfw. yea, we all swear by them on ~2000 lb cars that make ~200 wheel at most. they may work for you at hpde levels. but as u get faster, you will start killing pads rreeaall fast.

clutch pressure-its a known act issue with cable cars that when the pressure gets stiff, the pp is done. i've been through it and broke a pedal assembly and a few clutch cables. no fun at all.

oem lsd-it may hold up as im not camiliar with cable lsd's compared to hydro lsds. but if it fails, itll blow up and wreck the trans (been there too)
so if it ever starts to clunk like a bad engine mount or axle on engagement, its the diff taking a ****. but it'll probably be fine.

 

Thanks for advice on the clutch ware... Back to the brakes your running ITR's and you like them? With my kind of power will I be eating rotors or just a **** load of pads? Don't forget I have an 88' Si, so it's light, but I still have to change out the rear spindles to I can bolt an adapter plate for the rear calipers... I can either the whole sway arm from the junk yard and pull the parts off I need or a few plates sell these adapter plates, and I can just buy the parts separately...

 

if you have a budget of around $3000 in maint a year to replace all the stuff you will destroy (axles, burned, melted wiring, sensors etc, cracked manifolds, burned hoods, tons of pads, cooling componants, motor mount, tires, etc etc) Then you still shouldn't do it, especially if you arent a track veteran, its not gonna make you any faster if you dont know how to control a FWD car on track, let a lone a FWD car with 300whp.

 

ACT clutches are crap. Whether you're used to them or not, use something else. A failed clutch at a track day will ruin your weekend in a serious way.

For brakes, "all these EF guys" swearing by NSX calipers, are they track guys? The only REAL benefit of them that I can see is more even pad wear. They're heavier and harder to maintain (have to put them on backwards and upside down), and lesser calipers (ITR) will lock up your tires just as well. You have enough potential issues with the engine, keep things simple with ITR brakes. While the lightness of your car will be beneficial in braking, with 300-400hp you'll be seeing SERIOUS straight line speeds. THAT is where you're going to wear **** out with brakes.

 

for the rear disc, just buy the entire arm from the junk yard.

 

Your looking to build pretty much exactly what I'm building.

IMO, I've had the most fun tracking my old turbo ZC CRX setup, and have missed it ever since. I now have a stock block B16 with a GSR head, and a twin scrowl GT3082R. As for cooling, I have a full-race PWR radiator with a large custom build shroud, 6x11 oil cooler, and meth injection. As for brakes, I have a F/R DA setup (knuckles, arms, MC..ect) with brembo blanks and carbotech pads.

I'm still putting the finishing touches on the car, but I feel it will handle 20-30min track sessions just fine. I have plans for running time attack though.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boostwerks.com &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> As for brakes, I have a F/R DA setup (knuckles, arms, MC..ect) with brembo blanks and carbotech pads. </TD></TR></TABLE>
brakes are too small for that much hp. and especially with carbotech pads, they will be done in one weekend probably.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Lo-Buck EF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
brakes are too small for that much hp. and especially with carbotech pads, they will be done in one weekend probably.</TD></TR></TABLE>

One day. Bring spare front pads and rotors.

My ITR brakes would last a weekend.

 

you will need bigger brakes with boosted power levels...

I ran a Vortech SC set up.....325 HP @ 8500rpm fun linear power.

However I needed better brakes to go with the extra power...I was 25-30mph faster at the end of the straight on PIR....

I am running a 6piston setup with 13" rotors