Hello everyone,
My name is Kenneth Sloan. I own King's Off Road Enterprise here in Tulsa, Ok. We go by K.O.R.E.

We are a full fabrication shop that specializes in Off Road. Mainly buggies, Jeeps, & Trucks. In our 5,000 sq. ft. facility we have a Hi-Definition CNC Plasma table, lathe, mill, 6' Press Brake, & 4' Sheetmetal brake. I've already posted pics up of some of our welds...I'll post pics up later of some of our other work.

Anyways.....
Lately we've been doing quite a bit of work on drag cars, street cars, imports, etc...

With all of the Hondas we've been working on lately, I've got a new project in my head that I'm going to start soon.

I'm wanting to build a small, lightweight 2 seater buggy. Keepin it around 2k lbs. overall weight.

We really want to use some sort of Honda drivetrain (One of my employees is a Hardcore Honda guy)

Which brings me here to pick up some info on motors, trans, wiring, etc...

For a crawler, we'll need:
- Decent torque (This can be multiplied through the trans & gearing in axles)
- Good amount of wheelspeed ability
- Reliable

I'm thinking B18 Non-Vtec with a Turbo. This should be pretty reliable with decent power, correct?

Mount the motor sideways in the chassis, weld the trans, & machine adapters on the CV cups to adapt driveshaft flanges to.

Then use a pair of Toyota front axles for both ends. This will give us 4 wheel steering that we'll need for maneuverability since we won't be able to disconnect the front or rear d-shafts.

Or at least I haven't came up with a good way to disconnect the driveshafts yet. Any ideas on that?


I'm open to suggestions on any of this stuff. Just trying to do something a little different.

Thanks
-Kenneth

 

You could make a slip yoke inside a carrier on the drivesahfts, that would a have a splined gear and you could even put a syncro ring on it to make it engageable while moving...kinda of like a gear in a tranny but in dedicated housings on front and one rear.

Might be a horrible idea...but just tossing it out there.

 

For engines, I would say you could start with a B20 from an older CR-V, or a K24 from a newer CR-V. That way, you'll get an SUV-based drivetrain with larger displacement, and better lower end torque.

 

Unless geared very low (to keep the rpm's up there) most Honda motors even with a turbo will not have that low end grunt you are probably looking for. I guess you could give it a shot with a tiny efficient turbo setup, but I still don't think it would be the best place to start.
^^This is for a crawler. If you are thinking about making a buggy for sand and what not, I think it will be a great Idea to use a turbo honda

 

You might also want to look into VW 6 cylinder VR motors. The older 12v motors are very cheap to acquire and are a 2.8L, so you'll get better low end power on that with a smaller quick spooling turbo.

 

i dont see why a k24 wouldnt work alright. i mean i see guys do amazing things with 22r's in toyotas, my friend toyota truck/crawler has a 22r with the marlin kit for dual t-cases and 5.89 ratios for 215:1 and it makes that litttle 22R do wonders.

 

Well you could gear it really low to multiply the torque of the engine, but its sort of like a fix for the lack of torque.... I know its going to be geared low either way, But if you start off with something that makes more tq down low, you'd be better off.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by m R g S r &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well you could gear it really low to multiply the torque of the engine, but its sort of like a fix for the lack of torque.... I know its going to be geared low either way, But if you start off with something that makes more tq down low, you'd be better off. </TD></TR></TABLE>

K24's make plenty of low range torque for his specific application. In comparison, they make slightly more than 22RE's in the lower end, and those are common in the crawling field.

 

http://www.rhino-offroad.com/p....html



• RTV 2FS frame
• Dual seats
• 2.0 liter DOHC 4 cylinder Honda engine
• 146 HP / 135 lb/ft torque
• 4-speed automatic transmission
• 60 mph top speed
• Rhino rock-crawling shifter
• Ford 9” axles with winch connect
• 2” nitrogen gas shocks
• 14” shock travel
• 37” Procomp X-Terrain tires
• 15” beedlock wheels
• Front air locker with compressor
• 5-point racing harness (2)
• Dual independent brake cylinders
• 4-wheel disc brakes

 

I know who you guys are, awesome shop

I just recently got rid of my SFA 94 4runner. That thing was a blast. 5.29's and lock-rite cheapos, but I surprised the hell out of some pretty modified rubicons

I'm going to say a b20 with a small turbo, like a GT28R that will spool quickly will be your best bet for the kind of torque a crawler needs, with enough revs available and top end power to move when necessary.

Lookin forward to see updates once it gets started!

 

down south....we had a LOT of people using delivery truck disels till the fuel went out the room. there were some guy talking about going this route as well...but a lot have jsut gone buggies with yota drive train.

i mean come one...5.29 or 5.71's locked....and a dual case....you don't need engine power or torque, you hvae mechnical advantage out the butt, haha.

 

are ya'll wanting to make harlan capable stuff? or just more of a show piece?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GSRswapandslow v2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">down south....we had a LOT of people using delivery truck disels till the fuel went out the room. there were some guy talking about going this route as well...but a lot have jsut gone buggies with yota drive train.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

ahh yes, the 4BT swap. Heavy as hell, but the land cruiser guys love it. Makes great power and gets decent mileage (better than their stock motors, that's for sure)

 

That Rhino pictured up there is IMO.....FUGLY.

We're going to build a sweet little chassis with lines that actually flow. I'm working on the chassis design right now.


This isn't going to be just a 'crawler'. Around the trails here in Oklahoma, we need some wheel speed to get up things...plus its fun as hell jumping these things over boulders...LOL

From what I hear, these trannys are like a 4-to-1 ratio in 1st gear...Right?

That with the gearing of the yota axles (At least 4.88's) should (fingers crossed) give us enough grunt to move some 37"-39" tires. I'm thinking this whole buggy is not going to way more that 2k lbs.

I think I've got a line on a B18 locally. We'll see how that turns out.

 

VW 1.9l TDI would be my engine of choice. With injectors, chip, turbo upgrade you can see 170whp and 300wtq easily.

 

A guy on Pirate did this build. Im sure you saw it. I can't imagine the trans holds together.

 

An h22 or h23 if you goin to go with a honda. Lot better torqe than that bseries.

 

Those trannies are [freak]ing garbage.

 

how many times is this guy going to take a rock crawler down a drag strip? hmmm

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chimmike &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

ahh yes, the 4BT swap. Heavy as hell, but the land cruiser guys love it. Makes great power and gets decent mileage (better than their stock motors, that's for sure)</TD></TR></TABLE>

my buddy brandon had a REAL nice rig with a 4bt, so did another buddy "stone" both liked em at first...but man, if you spin a bearing in one by trying to do a burnout with all 4 wheels and 49" irok's....they are NOT fun to rebuild. lol...ask me how i know

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by K.O.R.E. &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> That Rhino pictured up there is IMO.....FUGLY.

We're going to build a sweet little chassis with lines that actually flow. I'm working on the chassis design right now.


This isn't going to be just a 'crawler'. Around the trails here in Oklahoma, we need some wheel speed to get up things...plus its fun as hell jumping these things over boulders...LOL

From what I hear, these trannys are like a 4-to-1 ratio in 1st gear...Right?

That with the gearing of the yota axles (At least 4.88's) should (fingers crossed) give us enough grunt to move some 37"-39" tires. I'm thinking this whole buggy is not going to way more that 2k lbs.

I think I've got a line on a B18 locally. We'll see how that turns out.</TD></TR></TABLE>


3.23, i think?
but yeah....4.88's to keep the strength up.... or, wait, aren't they basically the same pinion size as a 5.29?

either way...i'd run a dual crawler case keep the 2 in the front and 4 in the rear or go both 4's and be REALLL low

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GSRswapandslow v2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
either way...i'd run a dual crawler case keep the 2 in the front and 4 in the rear or go both 4's and be REALLL low</TD></TR></TABLE>

We won't be running a t-case on this thing. That's how we'll be able to keep the weight down so low.

 

why? i mean....it would't be THAT hard to adapt in even a 205 divorced case...and it'd really help out, weight or not

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by K.O.R.E. &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

We won't be running a t-case on this thing. That's how we'll be able to keep the weight down so low.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That would definetly be interesting seeing drive shafts extend from the ends of a factory trans, instead of axles. You'd have to make sure it turns in the right direction first if you havn't already

I would go with a H22 motor, with a B16 trans swap. Combined with a decent GT28R turbo setup, you'd have a torque monster.

The main thing I'd be worried about is if the trans could hold the torque transfer, and shock loads (if you can get it spinning right).

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boostwerks.com &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

That would definetly be interesting seeing drive shafts extend from the ends of a factory trans, instead of axles. You'd have to make sure it turns in the right direction first if you havn't already

I would go with a H22 motor, with a B16 trans swap. Combined with a decent GT28R turbo setup, you'd have a torque monster.

The main thing I'd be worried about is if the trans could hold the torque transfer, and shock loads (if you can get it spinning right). </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yea....I think we've got everything worked out on the rotation. We'll have to modify the axles a little bit, but that's no problem with all of the machining equipment we have here. We do that kind of stuff everyday!

I'm trying to keep the weight to a minimum on this thing = No T-Case....We'll have to play with gearing in the axles to get it where we want.


We picked up a B18 & trans locally that's in great shape.

Went through it the other night. Got it sitting all cleaned up, ready to go in a chassis now.


Material for the chassis will be here Friday. Using a mixture of 1.5"x.095, 1.5"x.120, 1.25" & 1" for gussets.