On a Civic VX/HX, would swapping in a K20A engine improve mileage?
Thread Starter
B*a*n*n*e*d
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 464
Likes: 0
From: Bay Area, CA, USA
On a Civic VX/HX, would swapping in a K series engine improve mileage?
Given how advanced the K series engine is, I wanted to know if swapping in a K20A engine in its default configuration into a Civic VX/HX would improve mileage or not. One issue I have with the K20 is that it has increased the displacement by a whole litre over the D Series engines that come in the EG6 or EJ7 Civics.
In high revving 'racing' engines, the stroke is decreased so the engine moves up and down less, correct? Wouldn't this also reduce the displacement of the engine as well? If this is true, would I be able to get the equivalent of a 1.5L engine out of the 2.0L K20A if I reduce the stroke? (Piston travels less of a distance)
Is it possible to both increase the torque of an engine by modifying stroke without increasing the displacement of it? Higher revving engines produce less torque because they have a shorter stroke, which should mean less displacement. An engine with a longer stroke should have more torque but wouldn't that also increase the displacement of it as well? Is this a tradeoff I'd have to make?
Been searching around and I found nothing that says the Acura RSX supports lean burn, I thought these engines had lean burn upto 65:1 ratio? Which of these engines has lean burn? I see that its in the Acura RSX and the Civic SI but I don't see it in any "fuel efficient" models in the US so I'm worried that this means no Lean burn or any other fuel saving features. I'm wondering if these "features" can be enabled via a different ECU or whatnot. Also searching on google for http://www.k20a.org indicates nothing about lean burn!
Ok so which K series motors have lean burn? From what I've found, it's in the Honda Accord but I think JDM only and worse, it uses a K24 engine which makes it a 2.4L which is going to use more gas than a 2L. What I'd really want is iVtec i on a 1.5L engine, but if I can get better mileage by pairing a Lean Burn ECU with a K20 than using a Lean Burn D Series engine, then so be it!
Modified by imzjustplayin at 1:56 AM 7/12/2008
In high revving 'racing' engines, the stroke is decreased so the engine moves up and down less, correct? Wouldn't this also reduce the displacement of the engine as well? If this is true, would I be able to get the equivalent of a 1.5L engine out of the 2.0L K20A if I reduce the stroke? (Piston travels less of a distance)
Is it possible to both increase the torque of an engine by modifying stroke without increasing the displacement of it? Higher revving engines produce less torque because they have a shorter stroke, which should mean less displacement. An engine with a longer stroke should have more torque but wouldn't that also increase the displacement of it as well? Is this a tradeoff I'd have to make?
Been searching around and I found nothing that says the Acura RSX supports lean burn, I thought these engines had lean burn upto 65:1 ratio? Which of these engines has lean burn? I see that its in the Acura RSX and the Civic SI but I don't see it in any "fuel efficient" models in the US so I'm worried that this means no Lean burn or any other fuel saving features. I'm wondering if these "features" can be enabled via a different ECU or whatnot. Also searching on google for http://www.k20a.org indicates nothing about lean burn!
Ok so which K series motors have lean burn? From what I've found, it's in the Honda Accord but I think JDM only and worse, it uses a K24 engine which makes it a 2.4L which is going to use more gas than a 2L. What I'd really want is iVtec i on a 1.5L engine, but if I can get better mileage by pairing a Lean Burn ECU with a K20 than using a Lean Burn D Series engine, then so be it!
Modified by imzjustplayin at 1:56 AM 7/12/2008
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 779
Likes: 1
From: Daytona Beach, FL, USA
Re: On a Civic VX/HX, would swapping in a K series engine improve mileage? (imzjustplayin)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by imzjustplayin »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Given how advanced the K series engine is, I wanted to know if swapping in a K20A engine in its default configuration into a Civic VX/HX would improve mileage or not. One issue I have with the K20 is that it has increased the displacement by a whole litre over the D Series engines that come in the EG6 or EJ7 Civics.
In high revving 'racing' engines, the stroke is decreased so the engine moves up and down less, correct? Wouldn't this also reduce the displacement of the engine as well? If this is true, would I be able to get the equivalent of a 1.5L engine out of the 2.0L K20A if I reduce the stroke? (Piston travels less of a distance)
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I doubt seriously that you could alter the stroke of a K20 by enough to reduce it to only 1.5 liters.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by imzjustplayin »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Is it possible to both increase the torque of an engine by modifying stroke without increasing the displacement of it? Higher revving engines produce less torque because they have a shorter stroke, which should mean less displacement. An engine with a longer stroke should have more torque but wouldn't that also increase the displacement of it as well? Is this a tradeoff I'd have to make?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
You can not increase stroke and retain displacement without reducing the bore. You would need new, narrower sleeves, and new, smaller pistons to do this.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by imzjustplayin »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Been searching around and I found nothing that says the Acura RSX supports lean burn, I thought these engines had lean burn upto 65:1 ratio? Which of these engines has lean burn? I see that its in the Acura RSX and the Civic SI but I don't see it in any "fuel efficient" models in the US so I'm worried that this means no Lean burn or any other fuel saving features. I'm wondering if these "features" can be enabled via a different ECU or whatnot. Also searching on google for http://www.k20a.org indicates nothing about lean burn!
Ok so which K series motors have lean burn? From what I've found, it's in the Honda Accord but I think JDM only and worse, it uses a K24 engine which makes it a 2.4L which is going to use more gas than a 2L. What I'd really want is iVtec i on a 1.5L engine, but if I can get better mileage by pairing a Lean Burn ECU with a K20 than using a Lean Burn D Series engine, then so be it!
Modified by imzjustplayin at 1:56 AM 7/12/2008</TD></TR></TABLE>
I personally don't have any experience with lean burn.
If you want fuel mileage, stick with a D-Series. the K-Series was not built for fuel economy, the R-Series (which replaced the D-series in 2003) was. It isn't worth the 10-12 thousand dollar cost of a K swap to detune the engine for better mileage.
In high revving 'racing' engines, the stroke is decreased so the engine moves up and down less, correct? Wouldn't this also reduce the displacement of the engine as well? If this is true, would I be able to get the equivalent of a 1.5L engine out of the 2.0L K20A if I reduce the stroke? (Piston travels less of a distance)
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I doubt seriously that you could alter the stroke of a K20 by enough to reduce it to only 1.5 liters.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by imzjustplayin »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Is it possible to both increase the torque of an engine by modifying stroke without increasing the displacement of it? Higher revving engines produce less torque because they have a shorter stroke, which should mean less displacement. An engine with a longer stroke should have more torque but wouldn't that also increase the displacement of it as well? Is this a tradeoff I'd have to make?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
You can not increase stroke and retain displacement without reducing the bore. You would need new, narrower sleeves, and new, smaller pistons to do this.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by imzjustplayin »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Been searching around and I found nothing that says the Acura RSX supports lean burn, I thought these engines had lean burn upto 65:1 ratio? Which of these engines has lean burn? I see that its in the Acura RSX and the Civic SI but I don't see it in any "fuel efficient" models in the US so I'm worried that this means no Lean burn or any other fuel saving features. I'm wondering if these "features" can be enabled via a different ECU or whatnot. Also searching on google for http://www.k20a.org indicates nothing about lean burn!
Ok so which K series motors have lean burn? From what I've found, it's in the Honda Accord but I think JDM only and worse, it uses a K24 engine which makes it a 2.4L which is going to use more gas than a 2L. What I'd really want is iVtec i on a 1.5L engine, but if I can get better mileage by pairing a Lean Burn ECU with a K20 than using a Lean Burn D Series engine, then so be it!
Modified by imzjustplayin at 1:56 AM 7/12/2008</TD></TR></TABLE>
I personally don't have any experience with lean burn.
If you want fuel mileage, stick with a D-Series. the K-Series was not built for fuel economy, the R-Series (which replaced the D-series in 2003) was. It isn't worth the 10-12 thousand dollar cost of a K swap to detune the engine for better mileage.
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 300
Likes: 0
Re: On a Civic VX/HX, would swapping in a K series engine improve mileage? (imzjustplayin)
well, im not reading through all of this, so im sorry..
but honestly, swapping in a k for the better fuel economy...
think about all the money it will cost. now think of just paying 4.25 a gallon and getting like 40 mpg...
but honestly, swapping in a k for the better fuel economy...
think about all the money it will cost. now think of just paying 4.25 a gallon and getting like 40 mpg...
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,326
Likes: 1
From: n.c.
there's a article in honda tuning...the issue with the insight on the cover...they swapped a k into the insight and were getting 48mpg.
i dont remember which k though, nor was it done for that purpose of course.
Modified by instrument at 12:52 PM 7/12/2008
i dont remember which k though, nor was it done for that purpose of course.
Modified by instrument at 12:52 PM 7/12/2008
Thread Starter
B*a*n*n*e*d
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 464
Likes: 0
From: Bay Area, CA, USA
Re: (instrument)
Ah, so the R series is too an ivtec engine as well and is intended for fuel saving, that is good. So what about swapping an R series engine into a Civic VX/HX? Would this improve my mileage? How expensive/difficult would it be for me to get an R16A1 engine and would it be possible to reduce its displacement to that of 1.5L or 1.4L? Also are cars made for singapore and or JDM/EDM compatible with OBD-II standards in america? Cause I know that there was some issue about japan not using OBD-II in 1996 like we were in america but I'm wondering if and when they finally got around to adopting it; I think europe adopted OBD-II in around 2001 though I don't know if it's compatible with that from america.
Modified by imzjustplayin at 11:24 AM 7/12/2008
Modified by imzjustplayin at 11:24 AM 7/12/2008
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,689
Likes: 1
From: PA, US
Re: (imzjustplayin)
taken from Jeremy Clarkston from Top Gear, "Don't drive like a ****, and you won't waste any petrol." not an exact quote, but is the truth. just drive conservatively and you won't waste gas.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,049
Likes: 0
From: 909, CA, united states
Re: (90_EX_Civic)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 90_EX_Civic »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">taken from Jeremy Clarkston from Top Gear, "Don't drive like a ****, and you won't waste any petrol." not an exact quote, but is the truth. just drive conservatively and you won't waste gas. </TD></TR></TABLE>
x2
x2
Trending Topics
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,075
Likes: 0
From: Ya mothas undapants, USA
x4 I drive a 98 dx hatch. My D series has 221,900 miles on it and I made 41mpg on my last tank, and so far I'm making 43 on my most recent fillup. Put some more air in your tires and drive slower. Accellerate slower from stops, and if you pull up to a light that you sit for a while at (theres a couple on my commute where I'll stay put for up to 5 minutes) you could turn the engine off.
Thread Starter
B*a*n*n*e*d
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 464
Likes: 0
From: Bay Area, CA, USA
Re: (SHG_Beans)
Just to let you know, I consider myself a "hypermiler" so the basic/generic tips are of no good to me. I'm hoping that I'll be able to break the OLD EPA rating of the Civic VX by swapping in a new engine with more advanced engine features.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,075
Likes: 0
From: Ya mothas undapants, USA
Re: (imzjustplayin)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by imzjustplayin »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just to let you know, I consider myself a "hypermiler" so the basic/generic tips are of no good to me. I'm hoping that I'll be able to break the OLD EPA rating of the Civic VX by swapping in a new engine with more advanced engine features.</TD></TR></TABLE>
What kind of gas mileage were you getting with the civic VX?
What kind of gas mileage were you getting with the civic VX?
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,689
Likes: 1
From: PA, US
Re: (SHG_Beans)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SHG_Beans »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
What kind of gas mileage were you getting with the civic VX?</TD></TR></TABLE>
yeah, what mileage were you getting?
What kind of gas mileage were you getting with the civic VX?</TD></TR></TABLE>
yeah, what mileage were you getting?
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 418
Likes: 0
From: Tulsa, Ok, U. S. of a
http://www.gassavers.org
There is no way to improve upon 46/55 mpg i swapped my old vx motor out for a d15b and im getting around 30mpg with a custom tune that leans out @ partial throttle.
There is no way to improve upon 46/55 mpg i swapped my old vx motor out for a d15b and im getting around 30mpg with a custom tune that leans out @ partial throttle.
Thread Starter
B*a*n*n*e*d
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 464
Likes: 0
From: Bay Area, CA, USA
Re: (90_EX_Civic)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 90_EX_Civic »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yeah, what mileage were you getting?</TD></TR></TABLE>
OLD EPA MPG?
OLD EPA MPG?
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,689
Likes: 1
From: PA, US
Re: (imzjustplayin)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by imzjustplayin »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
OLD EPA MPG?</TD></TR></TABLE>
what do you get now, that would make you wanna try this.
OLD EPA MPG?</TD></TR></TABLE>
what do you get now, that would make you wanna try this.
Thread Starter
B*a*n*n*e*d
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 464
Likes: 0
From: Bay Area, CA, USA
Re: (90_EX_Civic)
Nothing really, I just want to get the best mileage I can in a reasonably sized car. Just like you guys wanting to get more power, I want to get more fuel economy.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 304
Likes: 0
From: Montreal, QC, Canada
first of all 1.5 and 2.0 are not a liter of difference second why are u willing to dramaticly change a motor by destroking and downsizing pistons which is all gonna cost you thousands. if ur set on a swap just get a good efficient motor and like people are saying drive easy thats your best bet
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 346
Likes: 0
From: 717, PA, USA
Re: (boost and bass)
wait...is this serious? dude...obviously your going to get the best possible gas mileage with the stock d. change your oil, oil filter, air filter, and fuel filter...and really your not gonna get much better than that....unless you for some reason want to drop a butt load to TRY and swap in the Insight engine....
Thread Starter
B*a*n*n*e*d
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 464
Likes: 0
From: Bay Area, CA, USA
Re: (EFSedanMan)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EFSedanMan »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wait...is this serious? dude...obviously your going to get the best possible gas mileage with the stock d. change your oil, oil filter, air filter, and fuel filter...and really your not gonna get much better than that....unless you for some reason want to drop a butt load to TRY and swap in the Insight engine....</TD></TR></TABLE>
I didn't know that the R Series Engines were I Vtec ones as well, the problem though is that they're not direct injection so they don't support as lean of mixtures as the K series motor. But the K series motor is larger to being a full Half litre larger is so I guess it really all just sucks. I wonder how difficult would it be to put a K series head on a 1.5L size block or smaller and what block would that be.
I didn't know that the R Series Engines were I Vtec ones as well, the problem though is that they're not direct injection so they don't support as lean of mixtures as the K series motor. But the K series motor is larger to being a full Half litre larger is so I guess it really all just sucks. I wonder how difficult would it be to put a K series head on a 1.5L size block or smaller and what block would that be.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 984
Likes: 0
From: Not in a Submarine.
Re: (imzjustplayin)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by imzjustplayin »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I wonder how difficult would it be to put a K series head on a 1.5L size block or smaller and what block would that be.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Hello, I'm Reality. Have we met? Stop. Think. Stop. Re-think. Post. In that order, PLEASE. What you are proposing is absurdly preposterous to a level I cannot even begin to comprehend. You believe that I-VTEC is what creates such good Fuel Mileage so blindly that you're willing to propose an idea that would NEVER work in theory, practice, or even in some freakish alternate universe.
You have a VX. Keep the stock motor in there, go research on gassavers.org and figure out that people have gotten upwards of 80mpg out of the STOCK VX Engine with good supporting modifications for efficiency. Please, for the love of god, stop thinking a K-series would be more efficient. If it was BUILT to be efficient they would have no reason to keep building the Insight. The insight has a more advanced version of the VX's "Lean burn mode" which allows it to reach Air/Fuel Ratios of up to 25.8:1 which is absurd in and of itself. You cannot do this on a K-series. Give up the idea.
The Highest achieved Average MPG for ANY K-series engine was the K20 swapped Insight which achieved just shy of 50mpg because they used K-pro EMS to lean out the fuel in low load highway conditions to 18:1 A/F. That engine was not swapped in for efficiency. I honestly do not know why they did it, perhaps to be different.
-Froth
Hello, I'm Reality. Have we met? Stop. Think. Stop. Re-think. Post. In that order, PLEASE. What you are proposing is absurdly preposterous to a level I cannot even begin to comprehend. You believe that I-VTEC is what creates such good Fuel Mileage so blindly that you're willing to propose an idea that would NEVER work in theory, practice, or even in some freakish alternate universe.
You have a VX. Keep the stock motor in there, go research on gassavers.org and figure out that people have gotten upwards of 80mpg out of the STOCK VX Engine with good supporting modifications for efficiency. Please, for the love of god, stop thinking a K-series would be more efficient. If it was BUILT to be efficient they would have no reason to keep building the Insight. The insight has a more advanced version of the VX's "Lean burn mode" which allows it to reach Air/Fuel Ratios of up to 25.8:1 which is absurd in and of itself. You cannot do this on a K-series. Give up the idea.
The Highest achieved Average MPG for ANY K-series engine was the K20 swapped Insight which achieved just shy of 50mpg because they used K-pro EMS to lean out the fuel in low load highway conditions to 18:1 A/F. That engine was not swapped in for efficiency. I honestly do not know why they did it, perhaps to be different.
-Froth
HT White Ops
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,813
Likes: 2
From: Arizona Uplands
Re: (Froth)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Froth »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hello, I'm Reality. Have we met...?
If it was BUILT to be efficient they would have no reason to keep building the Insight...</TD></TR></TABLE>
Um... Mr. Reality...
Didn't Honda quit making the Insight after the '06 production year?
They kinda silently came n' went, if I remember correctly...
If it was BUILT to be efficient they would have no reason to keep building the Insight...</TD></TR></TABLE>
Um... Mr. Reality...
Didn't Honda quit making the Insight after the '06 production year?
They kinda silently came n' went, if I remember correctly...
Thread Starter
B*a*n*n*e*d
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 464
Likes: 0
From: Bay Area, CA, USA
Re: (Froth)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Froth »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Hello, I'm Reality. Have we met? Stop. Think. Stop. Re-think. Post. In that order, PLEASE. What you are proposing is absurdly preposterous to a level I cannot even begin to comprehend. You believe that I-VTEC is what creates such good Fuel Mileage so blindly that you're willing to propose an idea that would NEVER work in theory, practice, or even in some freakish alternate universe.
You have a VX. Keep the stock motor in there, go research on gassavers.org and figure out that people have gotten upwards of 80mpg out of the STOCK VX Engine with good supporting modifications for efficiency. Please, for the love of god, stop thinking a K-series would be more efficient. If it was BUILT to be efficient they would have no reason to keep building the Insight. The insight has a more advanced version of the VX's "Lean burn mode" which allows it to reach Air/Fuel Ratios of up to 25.8:1 which is absurd in and of itself. You cannot do this on a K-series. Give up the idea.
The Highest achieved Average MPG for ANY K-series engine was the K20 swapped Insight which achieved just shy of 50mpg because they used K-pro EMS to lean out the fuel in low load highway conditions to 18:1 A/F. That engine was not swapped in for efficiency. I honestly do not know why they did it, perhaps to be different.
-Froth
</TD></TR></TABLE>
While you have a point that the K series in of itself is probably not going to help fuel economy, you're wrong in thinking that 25:1 AFR is good. The K series motor supports up to 65:1 AFR because it is coupled with I Vtec and because it has direct injection which allows more precise control with out misfiring.
http://asia.vtec.net/article/k20a/
http://paultan.org/archives/20...ction/
I notice the R series motor has i Vtec, but because of its higher emissions standards and I believe lack of direct injection, it may very well yield less MPG. Also where exactly on gassavers have you found "vxs" getting upwards of 80MPG in a VX? In case you're not aware, I joined gassavers around the same time I joined this site.
Hello, I'm Reality. Have we met? Stop. Think. Stop. Re-think. Post. In that order, PLEASE. What you are proposing is absurdly preposterous to a level I cannot even begin to comprehend. You believe that I-VTEC is what creates such good Fuel Mileage so blindly that you're willing to propose an idea that would NEVER work in theory, practice, or even in some freakish alternate universe.
You have a VX. Keep the stock motor in there, go research on gassavers.org and figure out that people have gotten upwards of 80mpg out of the STOCK VX Engine with good supporting modifications for efficiency. Please, for the love of god, stop thinking a K-series would be more efficient. If it was BUILT to be efficient they would have no reason to keep building the Insight. The insight has a more advanced version of the VX's "Lean burn mode" which allows it to reach Air/Fuel Ratios of up to 25.8:1 which is absurd in and of itself. You cannot do this on a K-series. Give up the idea.
The Highest achieved Average MPG for ANY K-series engine was the K20 swapped Insight which achieved just shy of 50mpg because they used K-pro EMS to lean out the fuel in low load highway conditions to 18:1 A/F. That engine was not swapped in for efficiency. I honestly do not know why they did it, perhaps to be different.
-Froth
</TD></TR></TABLE>
While you have a point that the K series in of itself is probably not going to help fuel economy, you're wrong in thinking that 25:1 AFR is good. The K series motor supports up to 65:1 AFR because it is coupled with I Vtec and because it has direct injection which allows more precise control with out misfiring.
http://asia.vtec.net/article/k20a/
http://paultan.org/archives/20...ction/
I notice the R series motor has i Vtec, but because of its higher emissions standards and I believe lack of direct injection, it may very well yield less MPG. Also where exactly on gassavers have you found "vxs" getting upwards of 80MPG in a VX? In case you're not aware, I joined gassavers around the same time I joined this site.