Hey guys i have my mk4 gti 1.8t up for sale and i am looking considering getting into a civic hatch with a b20 or bi18 swap. What are the major differences i can expect to see? Would a civic with either of those swaps lack low end power?

 

anyone?

 

The biggest thing you will notice is there is no torque at all. GTIs are like Jeep Wranglers when it comes to torque, but we just don't have it. But we do have top end, so you'll have to get used to reving to 8000+ RPMs if you get a decent motor (USDM B18C1 or B18C5, JDM B18C). The Type R motors go all the way to 9000rpm.

I would highly recommend buying a mint, stock civic then doing the swap. That way you don't run into any nasty surprises.

If you want to keep your torque, your best bet would be an H22 swap, they can make alot of power, and are probably the torque-iest of all Honda motors.

Keep in mind its also going to be harder to make HP with an NA Honda than it is with VWs 1.8T. You have to do more than add an intake, exhaust, and a chip for an extra 50hp. Unless of course you get a K-swap. You can go forced induction and make alot of power, but you have to do it right. There are a million different options when it comes to modding our cars.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jtubes &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Would a civic with either of those swaps lack low end power?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, because VW 4-bangers are of the few that have a torque band beginning at 2000 rpm up. Honda mills are all about hp and rpm for the most part. Asking a Honda engine to make gobs of low rpm torque is like asking Rosie O'Donnel to stop being a...nevermind you get the idea.

 

Civics are pretty light though so the lack of torque isnt so bad. But many people dont like the high revving motors.

 

thanks for the info guys

 

civic+h22=

 

ur going to need to learn to expect reliability when owning a civic tehehehe..and yes no torrrkkaayy...unless u throw on a turbo and get a nice tune..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by v8 integra &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">no torrrkkaayy...unless u throw on a turbo and get a nice tune.. </TD></TR></TABLE>

and then wait for the lag to be over with

...or just go hi-comp N/A

 

my buddy has a GTI, that thing is FASTTTT, hes spent less than 1000 on it and its pushing well over 230hp. I love my civic, but if its speed you want, I'd go with the GTI.

 

ohh, 230hp in a car that weighs nearly 4k, no thanks.

also after spending close to 30k on that gti i'll enjoy the look on your face as you slowly fade behind me in my $1100 vx

 

i like the way instrument talks.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vlc92189 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i like the way instrument talks.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

i would say if you want to spend money like a vw, but have a honda.. do a k20 (rsx/civic si) swap. sure its more expensive than a b-series swap, but you'll have more torque than say a b18, and you'll retain that top-end power for the highway. there's also more accomodations out there for people who want to put a k20 in a civic these days, i.e. hybrid mounts, axles, etc..

..just my $.02

 

Hey guys let's keep this to honda talk if possible - the original Q was more about a B18 or B20 swap, and not so much VW vs. Honda.



Anyways I never saw if the comparison was a B18C VTEC engine vs. the B20, or just B18a/B non-VTEC vs. B20.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mcvtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Yes, because VW 4-bangers are of the few that have a torque band beginning at 2000 rpm up. Honda mills are all about hp and rpm for the most part. Asking a Honda engine to make gobs of low rpm torque is like asking Rosie O'Donnel to stop being a...nevermind you get the idea.</TD></TR></TABLE>

quoting that rosie part! lol thats funny.

but to the OP, IMO Volkswagen- safe happens. Honda - passing cars at 9 grand and up happens!

 

dude exceed i used to have that avatar as my buddy icon on a.i.m. like 5 years ago lol!

 

sorry b18c5-eh2, but

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by instrument &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ohh, 230hp in a car that weighs nearly 4k, no thanks.

also after spending close to 30k on that gti i'll enjoy the look on your face as you slowly fade behind me in my $1100 vx</TD></TR></TABLE>

get some real numbers. it kbb's at $15,000, and curb weight is 2,932.

all BS aside, I would much rather have a Honda.

OP: If you got the dough, that I would imagine you'd have after selling that gti, I'd go with a hatch/k20 swap

 

thanks fellas for all the info. Now all i need to do is find a buyer for my car.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jtubes &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">thanks fellas for all the info. Now all i need to do is find a buyer for my car.</TD></TR></TABLE>

try here if you haven't already..
http://www.vwvortex.com

 

the VW is always a cooler car to drive IMO. Modded VR6 sounds like sex. I miss mine... but then there is the other side. LOTS of interchangeable parts... cheap to own and maintain .. VERY easy to work on. I have less into my Civic than I did in my GTI... and the Honda would have stomped the living daylights out of it. My white Civic just has a straight B20... my dub had a 2.0 ABA, worked Xflow head and techtonics cam, SDS EMS and a 50 shot of the giggly. If I had deeper pockets I would be into another dub.... but Honda is for me right now... it's as good as you think. Welcome aboard




I have a vid somewhere of my car gettin down on it... but it beats up on VR6 cars all day long .. you will like it

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by badboyr66 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the VW is always a cooler car to drive IMO. Modded VR6 sounds like sex. I miss mine... but then there is the other side. LOTS of interchangeable parts... cheap to own and maintain .. VERY easy to work on. </TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah i hear that. i miss my mkV 2.0t GTi. i only had intake, 3" turbo-back, springs and an adjustable rear sway. with just the intake and exhaust, i beat up on a couple 350z/g35s on the highway.

but after less than a year, i just missed my VTEC! the turbo spooled quickly, and the thing pulled pretty hard, but the power band just seemed pretty flat . no aggressive power curve like that of a 1.8 dohc vtec screaming to 8100 rpm.

what can i say? i have been to the other side, and it didnt take me long to get back in a honda

 

My roommate has a mkIV GTI and I'd trade my hatch any day for that thing. Unfortunately, she has the money to buy one, and I don't, or I'd have one myself.

The 2.0T and 1.8T are completely different monsters, the 1.8T has a more agressive powerband and will slap you in the back of the seat, the 2.0T is supposed to be more like the VR6 (from everything I've heard) with the smooth powerband all the way through.

Back on topic, I think any of the common swaps are going to noticably lack the low end power that your GTI has, it will also take more to reach the same power levels you could reach in a 1.8T. But it all comes down to preference.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by starion88esir &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The 2.0T and 1.8T are completely different monsters, the 1.8T has a more agressive powerband and will slap you in the back of the seat, the 2.0T is supposed to be more like the VR6 (from everything I've heard) with the smooth powerband all the way through.

Back on topic, I think any of the common swaps are going to noticably lack the low end power that your GTI has, it will also take more to reach the same power levels you could reach in a 1.8T. But it all comes down to preference.</TD></TR></TABLE>[QUOTE=starion88esir]

yeah, i've never been in a 1.8t powered vw, but i guess you could say my 2.0t was kind of like my friend's vr6 mk3.

in reply to your comment about taking more to reach the same power level, conversely.. vw's on average, are quite a bit heavier than your everyday civic/integra. so you dont need to make as much power to be able to roll with the v-dubs. true, they get off the line quicker, but if you ever go to the track and see a vw vs. a honda (with similar power numbers), the honda usually will catch up to the vw by the 1/4 mark.

 

I'm not sure if you're referring to a drag strip or an actual track (road course), but either way, driver ability and proper tune play a big role. I notice a large number of VW owners tend to slap on upgrades, select a chip and think they're golden. But that's just my opinion/observations. I also like the handling of the GTI better, it's much more nimble and doesn't roll as much when thrown through turns.

Maybe one day I'll be able to get behind a 2.0T and check it out.