I have been debating whether or not to post, but just decided, to post some thoughts. Being around this site and the ITR community for the past 8 years ( ) , attended 4 expos (attended 2, 3, 4 & 8); help organize a lot of R-speed NYC activities, figured I'll try and give some insight.

I want to use this thread to help the planners with Expo 9, 10, etc.

1. Thank you very much to the organizers. I don't know if people truly understand how much of a pain in the neck organizing something like this can be.

2. Driving aspect. Maybe add more of a learning experience to the Expo:

A. However, maybe include alternative things during the day and cut back on some track time. For example, consider the following other activities:
- installations done throughout the day (clutch, autopower rollbar, how to properly bleed brakes, how to string align a car, etc.) Try some of the sponsor stuff out to show how it improves the car.
- basic car maintenance and what to do before going out on the track... like making sure your hood pins are fastened.
- for novice/intermediate=> driving techniques/mini autocross on the skidpad (how to heal toe, compressing brake zones, trail braking, etc.). More classroom basic driving techniques. My stupid mistake is that I assumed that my student knew not to brake in turns or push in the clutch in the middle of the turn. The person was VERY safe and it was at low speeds, however, certain things need to be known before going on track.


B. The first hour or two of the first track day should be instructor ride alongs. I'd rather give the novice/intermediate student 2 laps in my car at slow to medium speed and then 2 - 3 laps at speed before letting them drive.


C. Be a little more specific on what makes an advanced and intermediate driver. Some drivers were in a little over their head. VIR can be an intimidating track in some sections.

3. Banquet
A. Thank you to the sponsors for donating stuff. I will be sure to look at sponsors first for any future purchases (we all should !!!).

B. The food was EXCELLENT (I love fish). Wow !! Better than most corporate events that I attend.

C. The banquet was about an 1hour or so too long. It was funny, etc. etc. but could have been shorter.

D. Like life in general, at times cliques form.... but maybe actively put names to faces. Maybe first part of the banquet have the front part of the room each table stand up introduce themselves.... do banquet stuff and then have the back half of the room introduce themselves. I am a little bit of an introvert and typically don't walk up to people and introduce myself. But, if forced to stand, I will introduce myself to a group.

E. Did I say that the food was excellent?

3. Extra curricular activities

A. Even though drinking and setting things on fire may be "fun" to some, maybe include some sort of movie night on the night before the first day. Set up a screen and projector at the track. Showing some of the Best Motoring DVD's or hate to say...even F&F films.


Overall, it was a good time. I hope to return to a future Expo, however, this Expo was a huge financial (stupid hood pins and Diesel prices), personal (vacation time, wife left at home) and physical (heat, instructing, driving 2000+ miles) investment.

 

Glad you decided to post this, Dave

Lots of very good points.

 

man I totally didnt even see you all weekend to say whats up. I only met you a couple times, if that, but woulda been nice to say hi and finally thank you personally for that ITR clock you gave me like 4 yrs ago lol. sorry about your windshield too that SUCKS.

some good suggestions there, however I dont know if all of it (or most of it) is very feasible due to being on such a tight time schedule. I hardly had any time to just go around and talk with ppl if they werent in my immediate area of the paddock.

and yes the food was outstanding!

 

David... great to see you again this year man, and glad we got some time to chat before you all left on Tues.

Thanks for the suggestions

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by davidnyc &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

2. Driving aspect. Maybe add more of a learning experience to the Expo:

A. However, maybe include alternative things during the day and cut back on some track time. For example, consider the following other activities:
- installations done throughout the day (clutch, autopower rollbar, how to properly bleed brakes, how to string align a car, etc.) Try some of the sponsor stuff out to show how it improves the car.
- basic car maintenance and what to do before going out on the track... like making sure your hood pins are fastened.
- for novice/intermediate=&gt; driving techniques/mini autocross on the skidpad (how to heal toe, compressing brake zones, trail braking, etc.). More classroom basic driving techniques. My stupid mistake is that I assumed that my student knew not to brake in turns or push in the clutch in the middle of the turn. The person was VERY safe and it was at low speeds, however, certain things need to be known before going on track.


B. The first hour or two of the first track day should be instructor ride alongs. I'd rather give the novice/intermediate student 2 laps in my car at slow to medium speed and then 2 - 3 laps at speed before letting them drive.


C. Be a little more specific on what makes an advanced and intermediate driver. Some drivers were in a little over their head. VIR can be an intimidating track in some sections.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Great ideas and good feedback. I agree with Ryan that time constraints would probably be the limiting factor

A. can be helpful for some, make it optional, but don't take away track time

B. agree, at least one ride in the instructors car during the day, it really showed me some things

C. agree, but is probably hard to judge with a lot of new people showing up and instructors not knowing them. Not sure if this is even possible, but could there be changes to the driver and his/her class during the event? like if an instructor thinks a driver should move up or down from novice/intermediate/advanced than make the change before the next session

 

Ill try to make this short and sweet.

Focus on the ITR/Honda Community as opposed to making it just a Driving Experience.

The banquet I felt only catered to a small percentage of the crowd (with the exception of the kind donations from the sponsors). It was very "clickish". It needs to be a bit more open. Inviting people to the front and talk about their pre-expo adventure, etc. Furthest attendance award? The Most Expo Attendance Award? I realize that you have 2-3 hours to accomplish everything but maybe the numbers can already be "pre-drawn" before the banquet starts. The donation process were just too long. Sponsors should have spoken more. Seems like sponsors do a big part, but dont have enough time to share alot about their company.

I think everything else was a success. Seemed like alot happened for the small of staff there is.

Move Expo to Midwest: MAM or Barber

Welcome and Genuinely Thank New Comers!!!!!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RTW DC2R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">man I totally didnt even see you all weekend to say whats up. I only met you a couple times, if that, but woulda been nice to say hi and finally thank you personally for that ITR clock you gave me like 4 yrs ago lol. sorry about your windshield too that SUCKS.

some good suggestions there, however I dont know if all of it (or most of it) is very feasible due to being on such a tight time schedule. I hardly had any time to just go around and talk with ppl if they werent in my immediate area of the paddock.

and yes the food was outstanding!</TD></TR></TABLE>

I never met you.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jgirard &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Great ideas and good feedback. I agree with Ryan that time constraints would probably be the limiting factor

A. can be helpful for some, make it optional, but don't take away track time

B. agree, at least one ride in the instructors car during the day, it really showed me some things

C. agree, but is probably hard to judge with a lot of new people showing up and instructors not knowing them. Not sure if this is even possible, but could there be changes to the driver and his/her class during the event? like if an instructor thinks a driver should move up or down from novice/intermediate/advanced than make the change before the next session
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Or you.

And I really look forward to meet everybody. I wish I could have. Maybe it wasnt possible because watching a 12 month old son is a TASK! Going to Expo, for me, is to make new friendships and catch up on the current ones.

 

Excellent points David and I agree with much of what you have to say. I think EXPO is becoming a bit too much of an HPDE and less of an EXPO. Good seeing you again although I don't think I ever really spoke to you.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by migs &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ill try to make this short and sweet.

Focus on the ITR/Honda Community as opposed to making it just a Driving Experience.

The banquet I felt only catered to a small percentage of the crowd (with the exception of the kind donations from the sponsors). It was very "clickish". It needs to be a bit more open. Inviting people to the front and talk about their pre-expo adventure, etc. Furthest attendance award? The Most Expo Attendance Award? I realize that you have 2-3 hours to accomplish everything but maybe the numbers can already be "pre-drawn" before the banquet starts. The donation process were just too long. Sponsors should have spoken more. Seems like sponsors do a big part, but dont have enough time to share alot about their company.

I think everything else was a success. Seemed like alot happened for the small of staff there is.

Welcome and Genuinely Thank New Comers!!!!!!</TD></TR></TABLE>

It has become kind of clichish. I try to introduce myself to everyone that I happen across, but there really isn't enough time to get to know everyone. I think a more relaxed 3 day event could make this a little easier.

I know I keep going back to it, but I still really think Expo 5 was the best one we've had (although I missed the first few). With everyone, and I mean EVERYONE (except the 10 or so that camped), everybody was there together at the hotel with a great place to meet and get to know one-another. I'm not saying we should necessarily go there again (though I would be all for it if that's the case), but just using that as an example of when it was a little more community friendly.

Also on that note, at Expos 5 and 6, the banquets had a lot more of the sponsors getting up and talking about what they can offer and what they do. These past two years they only spoke briefly and then began drawing numbers.

Every expo I've been to has been a great success and they keep me coming back and I can't thank the organizers, sponsors, and attendees enough. This is just some food for thought.

EXPO!!!!

 

Migs, I hear ya, there were a lot of people that I would have liked to have met, I think the "clickish" thing about it is that people start hanging out with whoever is around them, whether it be in the paddocks or camping or whatever. I didn't know anybody when I got there except for the guys on the MW caravan and then I branched out from there to say hi to as many people as I could but there were a **** ton of people there

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jgirard &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Migs, I hear ya, there were a lot of people that I would have liked to have met, I think the "clickish" thing about it is that people start hanging out with whoever is around them, whether it be in the paddocks or camping or whatever. I didn't know anybody when I got there except for the guys on the MW caravan and then I branched out from there to say hi to as many people as I could but there were a **** ton of people there</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats why you need to travel a little ways for meets....so you get the introductory bs out the way

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by walker111 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Thats why you need to travel a little ways for meets....so you get the introductory bs out the way </TD></TR></TABLE>

LOL I know, I'm trying to make it to CMP in Oct, but having 2 kids its gonna be tough

 

First of all, I'm glad David started this topic (hey Dave, it was great to see you again!) and I'm glad we're all looking at this as an opportunity to provide constructive suggestions on ways to improve the event. This was a successful event (despite the heat ) but there is always room for making next year's even better. Let's also realize that the organizers did a huge amount of work - THANKS! - and it is appreciated.

I think these are worthwhile ideas. My suggestion is NOT to have them on the track days, but instead to have one (or two) days immediately before or after the track days. We can hold seminars like those discussed above, either in a hotel conference room or in the parking lot. We can also have other activities if we want - maybe a car show (concours), maybe something fun in the local area that has nothing to do with cars. That's what we do at NSXPO each year.

There are certain concepts that are fundamental, and should be communicated in the first classroom session before novices go out on the track. These include:

- the difference between an early line/apex and a late line/apex
- the fact that an early line/apex means you run out of track at the exit
- if you are going off, the need to keep the car going relatively straight while you get it under control, and NOT try to turn the wheel and/or steer it back onto the track until you have it under full control and slowed down

I've found that it's most effective with novice students, and students who have never been on that particular track, to first let them drive at moderate speed with an instructor in the car (NOT lead-follow), and then (before their next session) give them a ride in my own car. I don't like lead-follow because the cars get too far apart and the student concentrates on the car ahead rather than on visualizing the track layout. Letting them drive first is important so they can appreciate the need to learn the track layout and where they are. Then giving them a ride helps them see the proper line through the turns. $.02

I'm pretty sure the drivers were grouped by experience - and you're forced by sheer numbers to make the cut based on top quartile, second quartile, etc. If the mix of experience means that intermediate drivers didn't have a whole lot of experience - and this was in fact the case - then we instructors need to know this in advance, and we ought to take this into account and treat the intermediate drivers the same as novices. Heck, maybe the only thing that was needed would have been naming the groups advanced, novice 3, novice 2, and novice 1.

I wasn't able to stick around for the banquet. (Sorry, but the Car and Driver day was hella fun!) So I can't comment on that, other than to note that having really good food is important, because it will make everybody happy so that all the other aspects of the banquet are well received. Sounds like the food was really good!

 

Dave, thanks for posting up.

I agree with everything you said. The late night activities aren't my thing anymore and are out of control IMO. I probably should have locked craig's gas can in his car when I took his keys....

The banquet, I'm not sure what can be done there. People will sit by who they know, that's human nature. The excessive awards were a bit much this year.

I always sit with the same table, but that's cause the organizers have those two tables set aside.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dave-ROR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The banquet, I'm not sure what can be done there. People will sit by who they know, that's human nature. The excessive awards were a bit much this year.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I will be blunt for David.

The commentating were aimed for 25% of the crowd, not necessarily the front of the room. If you were not drinking alcohol, the jokes were not funny. There were quite a few people who did not catch humor of the typical HT ITR forum jokes. It just felt like a high school reunion where nobody cares about the "in crowd" or a company event gone wrong. The banquet should be catered to everybody in the room and everybody should leave that banquet content.

 

I think the meeting people shouldn't be something that is "forced" like having people introduce themselves during the banquet. I met 1 person at Expo 7, my first time there, and met probably 20 people this year. I would have liked to met more people, but driver's were very busy and it was hard to get to meet people. I know I had a few people on my list that I wanted to meet that I didn't get a chance to meet because of how busy I was.

Those instructional classes would be a great idea, and I'd definitely take advantage of them. With the amount of novice drivers this past Expo, I'm pretty sure plenty of people could of used that type instruction.

I was fortunate that my instructor decided to hop in my car for the lead follow and guide me around the track instead of having me follow. That really helped me when I went on the track. He offered to take me out in his car during one of his sessions, but I was in class when he was on the track, so it wasn't possible. I ended up going on with a friend of mine in advanced, and even though he had a different car, and was using different lines, watching him helped me understand a lot about braking. It didn't help me apply it, but thats my fault.

Overall, I had a great time, and even if nothing changed, I'll be there next year, and hopefully many more after that.

 

Mike(migs) and I have had discussions at length during our 32+ hours of being together in the driver seat coming out to Expo.... get to talk and think a LOT about stuff. First and foremost, I highly respect and admire Mike and his bluntness.

I believe the frustration comes mostly from the feeling that part of Expo feels like a frat party. The drinking atmosphere alienates those who do not drink. There is nothing wrong with drinking, it is the getting DRUNK part that is annoying. With the drinking the sense of "cliques" is exponentially felt harder.

At previous Expo's, I think I don't necessarily remember the drinking at the banquet as much as the stupidity happening afterwards (when I was already asleep and away from it).

The organizers this year tried to get it calmed down before hand with posting about how VIR will throw people out, etc. etc.... however, the culture has to change.

For example, the NOPI & FastFurious culture is known for the bikini clad women, riced out cars, etc... is the ITR Expo culture a bunch of drunks or people who can drive $12K (prev $24K) cars around a track faster than your $30K Evo/STI, Corvette, etc.

Now, I am rambling, but you get my point.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by eluam &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> He offered to take me out in his car during one of his sessions, but I was in class when he was on the track, so it wasn't possible. I ended up going on with a friend of mine in advanced, and even though he had a different car, and was using different lines, watching him helped me understand a lot about braking. It didn't help me apply it, but thats my fault.</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is a big thing that I wanted to point out. Thanks for reminding me. I'm not griping and I know how tough it is to get a schedule made for something like this that works for everyone, but the fact that all the novice students had a classroom session during the instructor sessions is far less than ideal. One of the best ways to learn is to ride with someone (especially your instructor) who can talk to you during and show you what they are doing and how to apply certain things to the way you (the student) are driving. Most novice students only had 1-2 chances to go for rides with instructors on the second day and none on the first.

Novices are the ones that can (in most cases) take the most away from riding with an instructor. Being in advanced/instructing I offered rides to as many novices as I could (as well as some friends who will be novices in the future) simply so they could see the track from a different perspective than driving their own car. I'd really like to see novices especially being able to and encouraged to ride with instructors as much as possible. It really is one of the best ways to learn and develop your skill and driving thought process.

 

Definitely agree Erik, after I went out with Andy I felt more confident about going deeper into a corner before braking as well as picking up a thing or 2 on a few corners that I thought I wasn't doing right

 

I wasn't there but have been at 3 through 7...

I have to say that while I understand the complaints, in a way this is a yearly reunion for a lot of people (you know this dave, having been at three in a row, and migs you know this too, and seeing how people got to be friends each year and pick up where they left off at the following expo).

Now, I have not been a part of the total craziness (expo 3 at the track/camping, and this year), but I probably have had too many drinks, sure, but we spent a lot of time basically standing around and catching up. The crazy stuff is out of control, sure, but its not the entire group who is causing track officials and/or police to notice us (fireworks at the hotel at expo 6), its a much smaller group.

I do agree the culture has to change, and the large friend groups might have to give up a bit of the insider humor at the banquet, for sure.

I'm not sure there is a solution for the drink/not-drink part, but I do agree that the banquet can change, and that there should be a bbq or an event the day before where we can all genuinely get a chance to meet each other, rather than just gathering at the track and setting up our spots all over the paddock. That might help.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris N &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
rather than just gathering at the track and setting up our spots all over the paddock. That might help.</TD></TR></TABLE>

A lot of this has to do with the sheer size of VIR's paddock and where people camp. The people camping stay out by their campsites, the people with Suites or friends with Suites stick over there, and the rest stay near the barns/bathrooms/shop. 3 big groups very spread out and very separate.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Erik95LS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">3 big groups very spread out and very separate.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Dont forget the 4th group.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by migs &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I will be blunt for David.

The commentating were aimed for 25% of the crowd, not necessarily the front of the room. If you were not drinking alcohol, the jokes were not funny. There were quite a few people who did not catch humor of the typical HT ITR forum jokes. It just felt like a high school reunion where nobody cares about the "in crowd" or a company event gone wrong. The banquet should be catered to everybody in the room and everybody should leave that banquet content.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I wasn't drinking and some of the jokes were funny

I didn't realize that David was speaking about the jokes, I thought he was talking about the seating and that people would sit only by those that they knew.

As for the content of the slides (assuming you are talking about the cake/cat pics), not sure who put that togehter. A lot of the content did concentrate on those who have supported the event for years, the ITR community is a community, not a regular HPDE, those that are new will feel left out, but should we kill the community feel of the banquet for them? I'm not sure what the answer is to that.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by davidnyc &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I believe the frustration comes mostly from the feeling that part of Expo feels like a frat party. The drinking atmosphere alienates those who do not drink. There is nothing wrong with drinking, it is the getting DRUNK part that is annoying. With the drinking the sense of "cliques" is exponentially felt harder.

At previous Expo's, I think I don't necessarily remember the drinking at the banquet as much as the stupidity happening afterwards (when I was already asleep and away from it). </TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't think you'll find a single organizer who disagrees with you on any of that. It was out of control without a doubt, and in hindsight we should have gotten VIR to kick people out instead of waiting for them to do it. The culture is what it is based on years of evolution (or the opposite in some ways...) and even with strict printed rules, it gets worse every year. At least there were no fireworks/airbags at 3am this year (to my knowledge anyways) but I agree that the drinking/partying gets way out of hand. As Chris said, this is basically a reunion for a lot of use every year and it seems that party is part of it. As I've said, this is NOT a regular HPDE, so I don't want to completely eliminate that element, but I do think it needs to be drastically toned down.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">For example, the NOPI & FastFurious culture is known for the bikini clad women, riced out cars, etc... is the ITR Expo culture a bunch of drunks or people who can drive $12K (prev $24K) cars around a track faster than your $30K Evo/STI, Corvette, etc.

Now, I am rambling, but you get my point.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Basically.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dave-ROR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I wasn't drinking and some of the jokes were funny

I didn't realize that David was speaking about the jokes, I thought he was talking about the seating and that people would sit only by those that they knew.

As for the content of the slides (assuming you are talking about the cake/cat pics), not sure who put that togehter. A lot of the content did concentrate on those who have supported the event for years, the ITR community is a community, not a regular HPDE, those that are new will feel left out, but should we kill the community feel of the banquet for them? I'm not sure what the answer is to that.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Maybe those people should become more a part of the community. I don't post in here a lot, but I'm on the forum enough that I got most of the jokes at the banquet.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by migs &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Dont forget the 4th group. </TD></TR></TABLE>

you guys were in the garages/suites most of the time weren't you?