Did a search, didn't find anything.

Anybody know the piston to valve clearance on a rock stock b16a?

How much room is there to play around in there? Hoping to find out so I can start down the correct path to more compression.

Thanks,
-Vector


Modified by vectorsolid at 1:33 PM 6/11/2008

 

Anybody?

 

I have read that, A minimum clearance of 0.045-inch on the intake valves and 0.055-inch on the exhaust valves is advisable.

So how much do we have that we can remove?

 

Surely somebody must know?

All help appreciated.

 

If it's a daily driven car I run .060" and .080" minimum.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by all-mtr-teg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If it's a daily driven car I run .060" and .080" minimum.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not how much should be left, but how much is in there with the stock components, to start with?

I want to know so I can figure out how thin a head gasket I can run, how much I can shave the head or take off the block. What's in the stock engine? before being fiddled with or altered.

 

Take one apart and find out. Most people on here dont do stock rebuilds, so info on piston to valve clearance w/ stock B16A cams probably isnt readily available.

 

Don't mill you head or deck your block for the purpose of gaining compression. Cause if in the future you head gets warped or really needs to milled, you won't have that buffer anymore. If you're gonna go through the trouble of decking your block just get some high compression pistons.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Combustion Contraption &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Take one apart and find out. Most people on here dont do stock rebuilds, so info on piston to valve clearance w/ stock B16A cams probably isnt readily available.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not a stock rebuild. Anybody contemplating a thinner head gasket with a cam is in the same boat. Which is simply, how far can you go, and what fuel is available to you.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Don't mill you head or deck your block for the purpose of gaining compression. Cause if in the future you head gets warped or really needs to milled, you won't have that buffer anymore. If you're gonna go through the trouble of decking your block just get some high compression pistons.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm not worried about the future of the head or if needs fixed. I suppose what's happened here is that I haven't fully described the situation and you guys are looking out for me, which I appreciated. But is not necessary.

Here's the complete rundown on this situation. I am in the middle of nowhere. The closest tuning/dyno shop to me is 750-1200 miles from here. So I'm on my own with nobody to turn to but you kind folks.

I've got a west coast shop building me a boosted 2.0L for my 93 hatch. I've got another crappy d-series civic I picked up for the price of the tow fee, $100. That car, I'm putting a low buck "found it on eBay" turbo kit. That one, I'm teaching myself how to work on the GOOD turbo car. Should I blow it up, I'll have learned a lot, and had a good time. I've got to try and learn to tune... on my own... with the help of you guys, once again.

In yet another hatch, I have an ITR type-R (well, it's not in yet, all my harnesses are at Rywire getting worked.) That car will replace this B16 car. This B16 car is the car I'm learning NA setups on so I'll have a better handle on Hondata, later on down the road. I could not care in the least if I utterly shell this B16 engine. I don't want to though, as that would mean I failed at my fun.

I don't want to pull the engine. I want to find some cheap power for nothing more than perhaps the price of a head gasket. Durability is not important.

So, that said, I want to find a cheap way to get the engine to perhaps 12-13:1, run on 110 fuel, and maybe pick up a few 1/10ths in the 1/4. Without the aid of forced induction.

I've decided that the first 40 horse on an NA engine run about $1000 every 10 horsepower. Spendier and more involved after that. SO, it's technically (and financially) a miserable idea to start an NA build with a 16 when you could just as easily, and more cheaply, do a b20/vtec build for a few grand and perhaps tickle 200whp.

I agree, if I'm gonna deck the block, I might as well put in good pistons... But now where back to polishing a turd.

Our engine machine shop is run by one of my best buddies, so don't worry about that. Machine shop time is free to me. He was more worried about effecting quench. So I set out to find out how much room we had to play around.... and here we are.



Modified by vectorsolid at 10:39 PM 6/12/2008

 

Clay your motor. Or you can buy some fairly expensive tools to measure v2p clearance without claying your motor.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by all-mtr-teg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Clay your motor. Or you can buy some fairly expensive tools to measure v2p clearance without claying your motor.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I was hoping I wouldn't have to, hence the thread. Somebody somewhere must know the piston to valve clearance with a stock b16a. If it's something like .1" that means I might have 50/1000's to fool with for gasket thickness and shaving. That could mean a single layer gasket and .030" off the head for a total of 11.8:1 compression from my 10.2:1 (as best as I understand the compression calculators I've seen).

I'm just having fun. But I'd just assume not buy every gasket there is. This way, the day we tear it down, we can get it put right back together and on the road, same day.

I'll bet Brian Crower knows. I might call over there in the AM.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vectorsolid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Not a stock rebuild. </TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vectorsolid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Somebody somewhere must know the piston to valve clearance with a stock b16a. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I will say it again, try to read through it this time. You are asking for the piston to valve clearance on a stock b16a. Not enough people here have done a stock rebuild with stock cams and measured p2v. I didnt say YOU were doing a stock rebuild, but someone would have to basically be doing one to find this info.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vectorsolid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'll bet Brian Crower knows. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I'll bet ya he doesnt.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Combustion Contraption &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I'll bet ya he doesnt. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Jeez, I hope he does. How could you sell a cam for a stock motor and not know if it's going to have to much lift or not? I'm talking mechanical interference, not performance.

And if they make a cam with say "X" amount of lift over stock, and he knows the new clearances, then we can figure out the old clearance. At least that seems logical. But I digress, I'm not in the cam, stroker crank, rod business.

Somebody somewhere knows, and knows what you can get away with, or we wouldn't have high lift products, and taller domes, and stroker parts. Somebody somewhere has done this math.

Somebody somewhere knows if you take .02 off your head gasket, you're left with "X" for clearance and interference. The basis for performance upgrades, good or bad, revolve around knowing the mechanical and performance limits of what you are starting with. Doesn't mean the part was a good or a bad idea, but that you have to know certain limits to make parts.

 

*sigh*

This is something you probably will have to do yourself instead of looking for the answer on HT.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vectorsolid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Jeez, I hope he does. How could you sell a cam for a stock motor and not know if it's going to have to much lift or not? I'm talking mechanical interference, not performance.

And if they make a cam with say "X" amount of lift over stock, and he knows the new clearances, then we can figure out the old clearance. At least that seems logical. But I digress, I'm not in the cam, stroker crank, rod business.

Somebody somewhere knows, and knows what you can get away with, or we wouldn't have high lift products, and taller domes, and stroker parts. Somebody somewhere has done this math.

Somebody somewhere knows if you take .02 off your head gasket, you're left with "X" for clearance and interference. The basis for performance upgrades, good or bad, revolve around knowing the mechanical and performance limits of what you are starting with. Doesn't mean the part was a good or a bad idea, but that you have to know certain limits to make parts. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Cam lift has nothing to with valve to piston clearance, but you allready knew that as the piston is down atleast 1.5 inches at peak lift. Right?

 

Aj-Racing Put CTR pistons in a b16a block which came out of the hole 0.013" and used a Spoon head gasket + milled the head 0.005" and the customer never had a problem.

Cheers!

 

If "vectorsolid" does the same combo and it blows up, will Aj-Racing pay for his motor? You didnt even mention what camshafts were used.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Combustion Contraption &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">*sigh*

This is something you probably will have to do yourself instead of looking for the answer on HT. </TD></TR></TABLE>

*sigh* indeed. Heaven forbid we look toward the knowledge base on a tech forum. ...lol... And how would a person know without asking?

As I read it, the critical factor is what's happening during overlap, when the piston is very near TDC, the exhaust valve is closing, and the intake valve is opening. The exhaust valve will normally get closest to the piston somewhere in the vicinity of 15 to 5 degrees before TDC, while the intake valve will be closest in about the same range after TDC.

Look, I'm not trying to cause any kind of trouble, I'd like to learn something. Nothing more, nothing less. Only way I'm going to find out is read, research and ask. I have my wife to argue with, I don't need you guys for that... ...lol...

This is why forums like this get a bad rap, 18 posts in, on a relatively straight forward question, and all we've got accomplished is, well, nothing.

And when we tell a noob to go search and read, guess what he finds, long worthless threads. Why do people that don't know the answer feel obligated to post in a thread where a particular question was asked? That's a rhetorical statement, and does not require a response.



Modified by vectorsolid at 1:54 PM 6/13/2008

 

If you gonna "play" with clearances, you will wind up measruing them anyways. Spend less time getting hammered here and more time inspecting.

Tired of hearing, "Sorry, I am a dumbass. Just here to learn."

I am here to teach or punish. Pick y0 destiny.

Fo-Shizzay. Thugz Life fo sho. Ya-Hurd?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Master of the Universe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you gonna "play" with clearances, you will wind up measruing them anyways. Spend less time getting hammered here and more time inspecting.

Tired of hearing, "Sorry, I am a dumbass. Just here to learn."

I am here to teach or punish. Pick y0 destiny.

Fo-Shizzay. Thugz Life fo sho. Ya-Hurd?</TD></TR></TABLE>



If only one could completely assemble an engine from reading threads on HT, vectorsolid would be set.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Master of the Universe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you gonna "play" with clearances, you will wind up measruing them anyways. Spend less time getting hammered here and more time inspecting.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Agreed on the getting hammered here.

I want to get as close as possible with informed decisions before I order some parts, like head gaskets in the various thicknesses that are available, etc.

Now, the sad reality of the whole thing will be when I do something and post the results, I'll get people that will think I was an idiot for not asking for advice before making what some may consider a mistake.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Master of the Universe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Tired of hearing, "Sorry, I am a dumbass. Just here to learn."
</TD></TR></TABLE>

So then, we should not be humble in our quest for knowledge? We should not ask questions of those that are more knowledgeable?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Master of the Universe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I am here to teach or punish. Pick y0 destiny.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I was leaning toward learning and compassion. So I pick that. "teach" is the destiny that I choose.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Master of the Universe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Pick y0 destiny. Fo-Shizzay. Thugz Life fo sho. Ya-Hurd?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm sorry, you must have misunderstood, as the question was asked by me, (vectorsolid) not some fellow named "Shizzay". So it was For-Vectorsolid, not Fo-Shizzay, as I understand your post. Is "Thugz Life" a brand name? and you are suggesting that I use their parts on my "S.H.O."? I do not hurd, I have friends that own cattle, they hurd. Pretty well, as I'm told. Thank you for asking.

 

You will most likely have valve-to-valve issues before having valve-to-piston if you are tighting up the lobe centers.

 

Fo-Shizzay is my way of saying MTV watching, crizzotch grabbing, wannabe rapers (I mean rappers) need not try to build motors.

Ya-Hurd?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Combustion Contraption &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
If only one could completely assemble an engine from reading threads on HT, vectorsolid would be set. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Sadly, that is EXACTLY what I have to do. I have no local shop, I have no local Honda dealer to get parts from. I have no local dyno or tuner place to take things to. I'm on my own. I don't even have friends locally that we car share information with... nobody here but me. I can't even call up a buddy and have him whip on over for some advice.

And I'm not being difficult. It's 750 miles in any direction for me to find a shop. And every part needs to be ordered in. A lot of them by companies that sponsor this forum. So my being here helps keep forums like this going. So I have to learn this on my own, with help from thoughtful people like yourself.

And why would a guy with a company in his sig (cccylinderheads.com) feel obligated to be difficult and argumentative? The correct way to handle that would be for me to end up saying, "Man, that combustioncontraption dude knows his stuff, I'm wasting my time, perhaps I'll send my stuff over to cccylinderheads.com"...

I did learn something, as it seems.