I am about to drop in an LS block (ls vtec---jdm b16 head, pr3 pistons in a b18a block) , my question is. . . .

can I break the block in with the stock fuel maps (b16)?

Should I break it in with a type r base map (hondata s200)---then get it really tuned after break-in?

What is the normal break-in tuning procedure for a new block?

I need to know before I damage my engine.

thx
brian

 

Ideally you would have a wide band on it as soon as it starts, but the 1.8 basemap is probably closer assuming the injectors and fuel pressure are set up the same.

 

i would start it up on the s200 w/ basemap and let it warm up to make sure everything is good. check for leaks etc etc and change the oil.

then take it to the dyno and it will be broken in during tunning

 

here you go...

http://www.laskeyracing.com/shop/breakin.htm

 

if those are your ONLY options, then i would say to go with the s200 basemap

 

crank it up with the 1.8L Basemap, check for oil leaks, coolant leaks, make sure the engine idles normal, no vacuum leaks etc.

After 20 min shut it down, change the oil.

Then call an make an Appt at a dyno facility and have it tuned ON THE DYNO for break in.

Protect your investment, spend the money on tuning at the beginning

 

I'm gonna tune it right off the bat,

thx guys

 

is there any truth to tunning a fresh engine richer than a typical tune and then retune it once the engine has been broken in?

thats not how i did my motor, but i saw someone saying this and i wanted some opinions from others.

thanks

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 98vtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">is there any truth to tunning a fresh engine richer than a typical tune and then retune it once the engine has been broken in?

thats not how i did my motor, but i saw someone saying this and i wanted some opinions from others.

thanks</TD></TR></TABLE>

What's the reasoning behind it?

 

well, first i tuned my engine to the Tee (fuel wise) beginning the first moment i had the engine running properly. 15:1 idle, 15:1 - 14.7 cruising and light acceleration, 13.8-12.8 for moderate, heavy and WOT.

Someone had tried to tell me the following after i said that i tuned my fresh motor just like i tune any other motor:

"a fresh motor has more friction. friction causes heat. add that additional heat to the already higher running temps and combustion temps of a fully tuned motor, and you can damage rings and bearings and pistons. also the same reason you're never supposed to rev a fresh motor too high.
sure, some people think you can do a full all-out race tune on a fresh motor, and some people actually do it. it doesnt mean its teh right way. and if you look at the history of such motors and tunes, those types very rarely last as long as if they were broken in properly, and broken in on a mild tune.

on a fresh engine that needs an immediate tune, the proper way to do it is to tune it to how a stock ecu would perform with a stock engine; as my boss and i call it the "forrest gump tune"; rich and retarded. and never revving very high."

I'm not saying this is wrong as there are a number of ways to break in an engine, but what is wrong with tuning a motor just like any other motor that has 60k miles on it? Whats the point of making the customer come back after X miles only to have the engine retuned again?

 

Hmm, that's an interesting idea. I know DonF has said to keep the revs moderate and take it easy the first few hundred- 1 thousand(?) miles.

Perhaps the ideal way to break-in a new motor is to keep the revs moderate and use moderate to high load?

OT: there's no break-in for bearings is there? The journal rides on a film.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 98vtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well, first i tuned my engine to the Tee (fuel wise) beginning the first moment i had the engine running properly. 15:1 idle, 15:1 - 14.7 cruising and light acceleration, 13.8-12.8 for moderate, heavy and WOT.

Someone had tried to tell me the following after i said that i tuned my fresh motor just like i tune any other motor:

"a fresh motor has more friction. friction causes heat. add that additional heat to the already higher running temps and combustion temps of a fully tuned motor, and you can damage rings and bearings and pistons. also the same reason you're never supposed to rev a fresh motor too high.
sure, some people think you can do a full all-out race tune on a fresh motor, and some people actually do it. it doesnt mean its teh right way. and if you look at the history of such motors and tunes, those types very rarely last as long as if they were broken in properly, and broken in on a mild tune.

on a fresh engine that needs an immediate tune, the proper way to do it is to tune it to how a stock ecu would perform with a stock engine; as my boss and i call it the "forrest gump tune"; rich and retarded. and never revving very high."

I'm not saying this is wrong as there are a number of ways to break in an engine, but what is wrong with tuning a motor just like any other motor that has 60k miles on it? Whats the point of making the customer come back after X miles only to have the engine retuned again?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Not saying anything about the rich and retarded, but cams and rockers do need to get to know each other, with the proper additives and break-in. Otherwise you see the "Someone ruioned my cams and rocker" threads. Idiots. Unless you are running the SAME cams and ROCKERS after your re-build ( in the same place) you need to break them in. It's that sliding parts thing, friction.

 

i reused my old head. The bottom end is the only part that needed "breaking in".

Is there any justice to running it rich and retarded? In my opinion, i would tune it just like any other motor so that the cylinder pressure is synched with the rest of the motor which should help with ring expansion and ring seating. I just can't see the use of running the motor rich when all engines have friction and all engines are hot. Cooler or not, there is going to be friction and i dont see how running it richer/cooler than normal is going to "help" with break in the bottom end.
The type of oil used, in my opinion, is going to be the most critical determination factor of friction and heat problems associated with a fresh motor.

 

I have an opinion on the Rich and retarded. You build a motor ENGINE dyno it and ship it. You do not get to see the install and operation. Therefore you retard it 2 degrees, and add a LITTLE fuel. Does not change the numbers much, but helps in the bitching later, when the customer does not follow the weather patterns. Would you feel good tuning to the absolute max. and then turning the car over to a 20 year old street racer who does not know how to check the oil? CYA is the acyronym, his dad my be a lawyer.

 

that i can agree with.

But the statements on using extra fuel and less timing than normal to keep the heat down to stray from damage during break in were a little far fetched in my opinion.

 

Actually alot of extra fuel and retarded timing increases heat. That is how you get those great bright red header dyno pic's. Fuel burning in the header. Retarded timing melts motors, adanced timing detonates them. Pick one.

 

Is this the correct oil changing schedule, as far as the oil for breaking in a new, freshly built motor:
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bambam &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Oil changing schedule:
Startup - 30w non detergent, change after warm up
after 20 miles - your favorite non-syn
after 100 miles - your favorite non-syn
after 500 miles - your favorite non-syn
after 1000 miles - your favorite non-syn/synthetic (it is now safe to run synthetic)</TD></TR></TABLE>
Taken from How to build a "reliable" lsvtec/b20vtec

or would you recommend a different oil change "schedule"?

 

I am about to drop the engine. I have all the parts.

Lsvtec P30's 1.8L
new Buddy club valvetrain and SK2 pro1's

Is a Type R basemap good for breakin on this setup?







thx
bri

 

back from the dead.


swap is ready to go,

check the setup and question on the above post^^^^^^^^

 

2 year delay lol but it happins stuff comes up .. he type r map will probly be ok to start it but what cc injectors are you runing ?? dunno if i missed it or not .. there is a company called phearable.net that might be able to help you with a base map to just start it and let it idle till you go to get tuned

 

I'm using rc440's.

I did not get any definitive answers though.

should I break in the engine first , then tune?

or tune it right off the bat?

still don't know what to do.

thx

 

tune right off the bat IMO...
Running too lean will make your pistons expand too much and scuff the cylinder walls...
A wideband can save your motors life!
You dont necessarily have to fine tune the ignition maps, but id say get the a/f's spot on first...

 

Im about to get my motor tuned by speedfactory in Tacoma Washington and they insisted that i get the car tuned right away and are installing a wide band to get the a/f correct right from the start. These guys know their stuff and if you have the money that's the way to go. Why take any chances with your new motor? The right steps in the motors infancy prevents problems down the road.

 

i wanted to know if there is any truth to this... i was told since im using cast pistons rs machines itr i should put 500 miles on them before i go tune to break in the motor on the dyno.

or should i go straight to the dyno and get the motor broken in?

any info would be koo ... thanx

 

no matter what pistons you run, you ALWAYS get it tuned asap or bad things can happen.