did the search already, and from what im understanding its hard to make power with stock cams. will it be the same situation with my frank? i was told by a friend of mine with a 13 second all motor crx that with my setup, i should first try +2 on the intake, and -1 on the exhaust. any opinions? reading on here, i should start with stock ignition, and try +2 on both, then mess with the intake a little. anything will be helpful. there isnt a dyno anywhere near here so im just looking for a place to start out. thanks

my info is in the sig

 

what kind of cam gears are they?

 

ok... here is something to play with.

stock GSR cams:

intake valve opens @ 10BTDC
exhaust valve closes @ 7ATDC
= 17 degrees of overlap

I suggest: 14BTDC Intake valve open (+4 on crank refrence)
10ATDC Exhaust valve close (-3 on crank refrence)

Crank refrence: The ratio of the cam gear/shaft to the crankshaft
degree adjustment. i.e. some cam gears have
+5/-5 which is 2 degrees per mark, some have
+10/-10 which is 1 degree per mark. THIS IS
VERY VERY important.

ok here are some inital thoughts...

you have open exhaust w/o restriction and low air speed velocity
and alot less back pressure than stock... non ideal for stock cams.
what you can do since your exhaust is extracting at this rate is
speed up your intake cam. I would suggest starting at 4BTDC
advance and working down. When you do this, follow this
procedure for cam adjustment>

1.) set engine to TDC.
a.) set cams to 0,0
b.) reset your valve clearances to spec .007in/.008ex" due to your
exhaust being open with a header and all, I would do this to make
sure you are all good and ready. Its best to do this at 0,0 because
your settings will be all wrong if you adjust them any other way...
2.) begin a cam at a time.
3.) so timing belt tension does not get foooouked,
do this:
a.) undo all your fasteners on that cam.
b.) with a 14mm wrench dial the cam to the desired
setting without moving the portion of the gear with the
teeth... the BELT SHOULD NOT MOVE AT ALL!!!!
(note) AEM style marks are ideal! +10/-10 in crank deg-
rees. Each tooth on the sprocket is 10.28 degrees. so,
if you are working with skunk2s, the +5/-5 is really
2 degrees per mark on the crank which is what matters
because we are dealing with the piston also even though
we are re-timing the static cam or LCA location.

that aside we drive on.

4.) find the desired setting, check and recheck, tighten the
fasteners across the gear and make them snug... not
too tight not too loose. check your work!!!! very important.

5.) check the ignition timing (brigde service connector, CEL
comes on, strap on the light... check it at 16BTDC or set to
16BTDC. make a mark on the cap on the head and the distributor
for a refrence key.

6.) loosen the distributor, remove the lower bolt for ease of
use and retain the rear and top 12mm bolt. Put a 4 degree
retard which is about this> distance [ ] on the distributor.
This will give you a ball park when you start the car... its
safer for the motor also.

7.) reset the engine to 16BTDC.
8.) reset the ECU by removing the battery cable for 15sec.

9.) drive and check a few things go to a place where you can
do passes and not get in trouble. run your car in 2nd gear from
3-5K look for a dip in power at 4500 which would feel like a
"bump" in the acceleration. If this transition into the high cam
is seamless go to the next thing. feel for power from 5250
to 7500. if it improves, you have successfully increased
midrange power. +4 is a good place to start on the stock cams
if it feels like it doesnt pull as hard, go down to +3, reset the timing
to 16BTDC, etc until it pulls the hardest all around checking for
the feel at 4500 and 5250-7500. It also helps to feel the 2-3 shift
when at WOT to see how the car moves out. The goal here is to
increase your power at 5250 which is where WHP/TQ crosses

ok.

once you have found your proper advance for the intake cam,
you might want to increase overlap further by retarding the
exhaust cam 3 "crank" degrees to start to 10ATDC. On the low
lift cam you will have no problem.

10.) set the exhaust cam to -3After top dead center. be sure
to follow the same procedure on the cam adjustment. check
your work.

11.) do another butt dyno pass. continue advancing from -3
until you find the best setting. (-3,-2,-1 is an advance)

12.) it is my opinion that you will end up in the +4, -3 range
I wouldnt create any more than 7-8 degrees of separation
on those cams they are short duration cams and not really
made to build overlap like the CTRs/ITRs or other bigger cams.

I say start at +4/-3 and drive it there at 16BTDC. Work back,
find your optimum setting. Then reset the timing to 18BTDC,
reset the ECU and your car will pull even harder...

happy TU_NING!!

IM me if you have any questions. Also, you may notice your
MPG go down when you increase overlap... hey it comes with
the territory! It will bump your CR a bit... like .2 going from
17 to 24 degrees. The ITR cams make 25 at 0,0... lemme
know how you do.

on CTR cams I have +4, -1 dialed in for a whopping... 33degrees
of overlap currently. I know the skunk2s stage 1s are about 33-35 at 0,0
but with longer duration of 253/249 over mine of 243/235. I am also
running 18BTDC. I was running +2, +3 before when I had a GSR
muffler which is 27deg biased toward intake duration to build negative
pressure where my backpressure was taking it away... With the ITR
muffler I can run more overlap and increase the duration at overlap
on both sides and make power...

On the GSR muffler I was making SAE 161/123 @ 122 at 5250 > 27deg
with the ITR, I estimate 167/125 @ 125 at 5250 > 33deg
anything more makes a hole in my accleration/tq at 4500-5250rpm
right now it is ver linear and pulls strong from 0-8K




[Modified by MikeSarr_GSR, 10:03 AM 7/17/2002]

 

they're aem's by the way

 

AEMs are not in Crank degrees. Only one I know that are crank degrees are the Toda Cam gears.

 

i have my aem's at +4 -2, seams to work good

 

Before you even mess with can gears you must make sure that zero degrees on your adjustable is the same as your stock gear. There are poorly designed and defective gears floating around that 0 is NOT really 0. I've seen a lot of them.

 

Is AEM's 0 truly 0? And are they in crank increments or cam increments?

 

Just curious as to who you know that has a 13 sec. all motor crx. because the only cars in the dalles are ricers, except for the 13 second black teg

 

all cars in the dalles ricers? what are you smokin? heres the list of just the people i know

Nick Hycheck Black GSR all motor 13's stripped interior and on slicks (the black teg you speak of probably)
John Shear Chemeleon 88-91 crx with all motor b16 runnin 13's full interior, street tires, and system

theres still quite a bit of people around here that have decently fast ****...few GSR's, a few 4th gen civics with b series, me with my 5th gen frank, guy with a prelude with nitroused h double deuce, and the list goes on...

where u from?

 

I am sorry that you have been misinformed about, these "fast cars" in the dalles. The only person that can back up the 13's is nick, as far as shear being in the 13's try 14.63 sorry to break it to you. I don't call gsr's with intake and exhaust fast, fourth gen hb's with b16a's are not all that either(by the way he doesn't live there anymore) an h22a with zex in a heavy prelude with heavy stereo system, wouldn't be considered fast either. And your "frank" motor you speak of, the only reason you have the b16a block is because fastrack blew up the gsr engine and you got the left over pieces(ctr internals, more like shaved head) I understand that you are young and impressionable, but don't belive everything that you hear.

Latez

p.s. its HAJICEK


[Modified by skunkwhat, 1:53 AM 7/22/2002]

 

wasnt exactly sure on the spelling...dont know him that well...so you supposedly know what i got in my car huh smart guy? who the **** do you think you are? i've seen shear's 13 sec timeslips, i've ridden in the car...so quit talkin ****...who the **** are you?

 

timeslips are great, but the camgears didnt make them fast.
anyone that can tune can tune with a good gear. I know
Mike K here in fla uses the AEM with his own fasteners
so slippage is not an issue. after seeing some, I can
say that they are nice, and a useful tool. knowing how
to use them requires knowledge of all systems of the
car that make power. this kinda jedi stuff is what I am
trying to learn but have a long way to go. focus on learning
and not about people that give you a hard time for asking
a question.

 

By the way no need to hate, The last time I saw your car it had 92-95 si interior, and gauge cluster

Your car is a fastrack special(Which can be a good thing). I must call you on the 13 second time slips from shear because they don't exist. His tranny has been "broke" which might make it hard for him to run 13's And a car doesn't majically go from 14.6's to 13's without something major, and I'm not talking tires. And because you have ridden in the car you think that you can judge 13's, by your *** dyno? If your car runs 15.5 then how could you judge what a 13 second car feels like?

On a better note... depending on the condition of your b16a and how much your head is milled you should be in the range of mid 14's. When your car had the gsr in it, it used to pull low 14's at woodburn. The cam gears that you just picked up could actually make a difference in performance with your milled head. And if you plan on keeping the car you should swap out the gsr tranny for a b16a. Get some cams too.,

 

you still havent answered my question...who are y ou...and yes shear ran a 13.7...i've seen it and the "broken transmission" is a grind going into third...and thats it...i've ridden in 13 second supras before, so i know what it feels like...yes a buttdyno isnt the most accurate thing in the world, but it felt about the same.

you still havent told me how you know my car...and i dont think you do.

tell me who you are, and give me a reason to believe you...i might take your advice and not be a *****

 

13.7 ...thats nicks time slip. Why don't you look at the 60' times, 1.8 or 1.9 second, not easy to do with street tires(as shear tells you he runs on his car)

Did your car come from the beaverton area? Did it used to have gsr in it? Did you ask the guy who had your car where he hung out?
I don't care if you believe me or not, it make no difference to me if you get beat by stock 92-95 si's(my car ran a 15.4 on street tires stock, 93 si, not saying thats fast, just that your car can be much faster...its all in the tuning and driving)
You have a swap and my stock car could have beat you, and my car is heavier, I know that wouldn't make me feel like telling people i had a swap.

Believe what you want, but I don't lie

 

my car came from the vancouver area...and used to have the stock cx engine in it...the guy i got it from didnt say where he used to hang out. the car was registered to some old couple, and then he bought it from them...drove it as his daily, then did the swap.

never said you were a liar, just said i wouldnt believe you until you told me who you were. i never said your car would have beat the time that i ran when i had my car for 4 days. i know that i didnt know how to drive. im not denying any of that.