http://i23.photobucket.com/alb...O.jpg <--direct link for dyno sheet

P&P, 3 angle valve job
victor x (wayy too big)
68mm professional products TB
supertech vt
ferrea 1mm intake valves
hytech replica header
pro 2's (0,-2)


bored .20 over
gsr crank
wiseco 11:8's
eagle h-beams
block guard
fidanza flywheel/exedy stage 1
cable LS tranny

all done with 91 pump gas at 31 degrees of timing on s300

overall i'm a little disappointed on the power, i'm waiting on a longer 3 inch intake to come in with BPI velocity stack and K&N filter to come in, then i'll dump some cash for another dyno pulll


Modified by ohsnapzafingcu at 3:32 PM 6/6/2008


Modified by ohsnapzafingcu at 3:36 PM 6/6/2008


Modified by ohsnapzafingcu at 3:36 PM 6/6/2008


Modified by ohsnapzafingcu at 3:37 PM 6/6/2008


Modified by ohsnapzafingcu at 6:15 PM 6/6/2008


Modified by ohsnapzafingcu at 1:31 AM 6/7/2008


Modified by ohsnapzafingcu at 10:24 AM 8/22/2008

 

this is my first build and i'm not real good at looking at dyno sheets..

everything look alright guys?

b19coupe and CC feel free to chime in oh and IT-R if you're out there post up!


Modified by ohsnapzafingcu at 6:20 PM 6/6/2008

 

i notice the dip around 4900, i'll ask the shop about it when i get there.. should the HP curve or tq curve be smoother?


is it cool how the HP curve is real rigid?

 

looks pretty good to me

 

What size engine is that? Regardless that intake manifold and intake combo are holding you back. I wouldnt be surprised to see something like a PerfX mani or even an ITR mani make big gains over your current setup.

 

This is a 1.8 liter with Pro 2's?

How much power were you expecting?

 

TQ isnt falling off very fast which is a function of camshaft/intake manifold selection for this engine, the "problem", if you can call it that because I feel these are good PEAK numbers for this setup, is the low/mid range.

OS int valves, with Pro2's, set at 0,-2 can be asking for trouble if the person doing the headwork didnt know exactly what he was working with. Who did the headwork?

Compression/Leakdown #'s?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MikeySpec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What size engine is that? Regardless that intake manifold and intake combo are holding you back. I wouldnt be surprised to see something like a PerfX mani or even an ITR mani make big gains over your current setup. </TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah while i was building the motor i was still learning about the B.. the head was ported and the intake mani was already port matched by the time i figured out the mani was too big..

it's 81.5x87


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by goforbroke &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This is a 1.8 liter with Pro 2's?

How much power were you expecting? </TD></TR></TABLE>

atleast 210-215 whp.. but i might reach that with a new intake and flow stack. expectations were a little high cuz i'm around 12:0 cr


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Combustion Contraption &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">TQ isnt falling off very fast which is a function of camshaft/intake manifold selection for this engine, the "problem", if you can call it that because I feel these are good PEAK numbers for this setup, is the low/mid range.

OS int valves, with Pro2's, set at 0,-2 can be asking for trouble if the person doing the headwork didnt know exactly what he was working with. Who did the headwork?

Compression/Leakdown #'s?</TD></TR></TABLE>


can u elaborate about the first paragraph?

and i figured out after i got the head worked for OS intake valves that i messed up.. i had my machine shop do all my head work, and my tuner clay my motor.. everything checked out good and i was able to run a stock hg with good clearances for valve to piston

and i got 180 across the board with the throttle body closed.. i'll have to do another comp. test soon, and i really don't know how to do a leakdown test yet but i'll read up on it soon

 

TQ is "Esssentially" a measure of cylinder pressure, and with your parts combo, you have big long valve events, and a huge plenum so youre bleeding off cylinder pressure /vacuum until the RPM gets high enough to where those the cylinders dont have alot of time to fill, and the extra capacity of the plenum, and extra lift/duration of the cams are working for you, instead of against you.

Contact your machine shop and ask if they performed a valve to valve check. The piston to valve isnt the issue, especially with aftermarket pistons.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Combustion Contraption &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">TQ is "Esssentially" a measure of cylinder pressure, and with your parts combo, you have big long valve events, and a huge plenum so youre bleeding off cylinder pressure /vacuum until the RPM gets high enough to where those the cylinders dont have alot of time to fill, and the extra capacity of the plenum, and extra lift/duration of the cams are working for you, instead of against you.

Contact your machine shop and ask if they performed a valve to valve check. The piston to valve isnt the issue, especially with aftermarket pistons. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Agreed.. the problem ran into with pro2's is not p2v.. its v2v.
Secondly, The victorX and that ***** size intake is more then likely probably staving air?? Size of the intake? Anything smaller then 3 inches is probably not good.
Your power is decent, i'd expect more. Your compression and setup is fine for the pro2's do not let anyone tell you otherwise.. However.. The induction system is something i'd look at. AFR Graph? What'd you tune for WOT wise in the AFR range.. Possible b19 can chime in..
My major question in all this jizz, was....


wait for it...

The cams degreed properly?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ohsnapzafingcu &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i notice the dip around 4900, i'll ask the shop about it when i get there.. should the HP curve or tq curve be smoother?


is it cool how the HP curve is real rigid?</TD></TR></TABLE>
It looks too spikey to me, thats either a dyno problem or the car has something majorly wrong.
That dip at 4800 seems weird, and the torque falls off, but the whp still climbs.
Dont be disappointed use this as a base.. Were there anymore cam gears fooled with , like any other setup ways? or did yall just **** in the wind and say 0,-2 was the best setup.. The duration on those cams is huge.. and being if they were degreed properly I'd say judging by most setups..
(I+3 E+2)
(I-2 E+2)

In more cases i've seen either the intake been advanced, and the exhaust right behind the advancement, or if the intake is retarded, the exhaust is advanced.. to create more seperation and possible lower the overlap period.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Combustion Contraption &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">TQ is "Esssentially" a measure of cylinder pressure, and with your parts combo, you have big long valve events, and a huge plenum so youre bleeding off cylinder pressure /vacuum until the RPM gets high enough to where those the cylinders dont have alot of time to fill, and the extra capacity of the plenum, and extra lift/duration of the cams are working for you, instead of against you.

Contact your machine shop and ask if they performed a valve to valve check. The piston to valve isnt the issue, especially with aftermarket pistons. </TD></TR></TABLE>

i got cha. it's all basic logic, but gettin the idea into your head helps alot..<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IntegraType-R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Agreed.. the problem ran into with pro2's is not p2v.. its v2v.
Secondly, The victorX and that ***** size intake is more then likely probably staving air?? Size of the intake? Anything smaller then 3 inches is probably not good.
Your power is decent, i'd expect more. Your compression and setup is fine for the pro2's do not let anyone tell you otherwise.. However.. The induction system is something i'd look at. AFR Graph? What'd you tune for WOT wise in the AFR range.. Possible b19 can chime in..
My major question in all this jizz, was....


wait for it...

The cams degreed properly? </TD></TR></TABLE>

the gay ***** intake right now is 2 1/2-3 inches. and i'm still waiting on my 3" intake and flowstack to come in.. AFR was tuned to 13.5 at WOT. and i was worrying about the v2v, but the shop that tuned my car was supposed to check it.. my machine shop didn't check the clearances cuz i didn't have the cams then<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IntegraType-R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
It looks too spikey to me, thats either a dyno problem or the car has something majorly wrong.
That dip at 4800 seems weird, and the torque falls off, but the whp still climbs.
Dont be disappointed use this as a base.. Were there anymore cam gears fooled with , like any other setup ways? or did yall just **** in the wind and say 0,-2 was the best setup.. The duration on those cams is huge.. and being if they were degreed properly I'd say judging by most setups..
(I+3 E+2)
(I-2 E+2)

In more cases i've seen either the intake been advanced, and the exhaust right behind the advancement, or if the intake is retarded, the exhaust is advanced.. to create more seperation and possible lower the overlap period.</TD></TR></TABLE>

they said the messed with the intake cam both ways and lost huge power, retarded the exhaust and lost, advanced the exhaust and gained a little, then kept going untill they lost and backed down..

if i lose power adjusting the intake, should i go ahead and play with the exhaust and see if it picks up any?

 

and as for the rigid dyno graph, before my dizzy kept messing up. some of my cylinders might not even be firing right.. i'll pull the plugs before i go pick up my car tomorrow and see if they are all good. 204 is real weak to me with my compression

 

and they were supposed to 'degree my cams in' they talked about having a degree wheel and such. i'm sure it was done or it wouldn't even run right... right?

hmm, i'm wondering if i went with pro1's what my outcome would have been? more torque, maybe whp? what are you thinkin IT-R?


and it's good having u back on this forum

 

Of course if it would run if they werent degree'd in properly. Its just not ideal.

A tuning shop cant check your v2v clearance with the head on the car.

 

This makes me wonder if I should use my pro2's on my similar ls/vtec

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Combustion Contraption &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Of course if it would run if they werent degree'd in properly. Its just not ideal.

A tuning shop cant check your v2v clearance with the head on the car. </TD></TR></TABLE>

well they pulled the head off, and they clayed the motor. basically in the deal they were supposed to check everything and make sure it's in specs and all the clearances checked out fine.. i'll check the cam gears when i get up there and make sure it's not sittin smack dab (0,-2)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ohsnapzafingcu &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and they were supposed to 'degree my cams in' they talked about having a degree wheel and such. i'm sure it was done or it wouldn't even run right... right?

hmm, i'm wondering if i went with pro1's what my outcome would have been? more torque, maybe whp? what are you thinkin IT-R?


and it's good having u back on this forum </TD></TR></TABLE>
Hehe, its good to be back helping my fellow bros, I and 98vtec had some difference of opinons and they're sorted out, its what happens when you get older..
Just because your cams weren't degreed in right doesn't mean the car wouldn't work or wouldn't make power, it just wouldn't "act" the way its suppose too, like you'd have to compenstate with the gears for no degreeing in your cams, thats why just messing with the exhaust kindof caught my eye.. Maybe its me, but in the cars i've tuned, the intake was mostly always adjusted, reguardless if it was +/- specially on big cams such as those. Pro2's and even donf said it himself, they will not make power set at 0/0 they must be fooled with.
Pro1's are different i couldn't tell you how your motor is reacting its A small possiblity that you've overcammed your car a hair, but Even then it shouldn't make a difference, your power is still climbing. I would imagine you'd be at the same stump.
As for your dyno crackling lines..I'd suggest looking into that first, if your miss firing and make this much power i could safely assume you'll be making some more power with a good sparking event. Look into getting some new wires and plugs possible at heat range 7, which is what i run.. if the dizzy problem is fixed by replacing it with a new one.

 

the motor is overcammed and the im chioce (which the op knows) is hurting the entire powerband up to 7k or so. the peak numbers are o.k., but the low-mid is power production is average at best. taking into to consideration that all dynos read differently, and its really just a tuning device, its hard to give u an answer that will lead u in the right direction. the only way to find out what works is to spend countless hours testing various parts. but, i'm pretty sure if u went down to a 60-62mm t/b (huge plenum, small t/b) and tune ur intake length, ur midrange power will make a guest appearance and the peak numbers will atleast remain the same. one thing some people keep forgetting is 87.2mm and 89mm powerbands are different and its becoming so hard to differentiate what works and what doesn't because there are just too many variables. every motor reacts differently, so the op is the only real person that will determine what combo works best. the ht community opinion can only go so far, i mean so few people on here know anything. more time people are just a guessing/regurgitating to be honest

 

I would not be disappointed with 204/135.

It funny because alot of people think you can just put some parts together and get a certain dyno number.

If you want to improve on those numbers then you will have to go back an re think this build.

(1) the manifold you have is bad for this application think ITR, AEBS, PerformerX
(2) the replica header what are the specs?
(3) how much does this port'd head flow?
(4) fix the dizzy
(5) what are the bearing clearances, ring gaps, p2W, etc.

Everything make a differences with regard to power/torque production.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mar778c &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would not be disappointed with 204/135.

It funny because alot of people think you can just put some parts together and get a certain dyno number.

If you want to improve on those numbers then you will have to go back an re think this build.

(1) the manifold you have is bad for this application think ITR, AEBS, PerformerX
(2) the replica header what are the specs?
(3) how much does this port'd head flow?
(4) fix the dizzy
(5) what are the bearing clearances, ring gaps, p2W, etc.

Everything make a differences with regard to power/torque production.</TD></TR></TABLE>

See mar778c for your daily dosage of back that thang up.

 

well i'm not saying my car isnt' degree'd properly, haha but yeah i'm pretty sure they did their job, or else it would've showed on the dyno

right now i AM on ngk7's, might even be 6's.. the plugs were really white when i had the 7's in

hmm so you think getting a smaller tb will help out that much? definately with the midrange/low end.. i'd rather have a little more midrange than all peak power1. i'll look into a performer x and see if it'll fit in my engine bay (92 db1 chassis)
2.it's the hytech replica header, i don't have specs
3.no sheet of the flow on the head
4. i'll pull the plugs tonight and see what all the plugs look like
5.the machine shop said it would be fine wit std. size bearings, seemed iffy but the motor runs fine with no sign of knock?.. ring gap, it was a little on the tight side..
p2w i really have no clue

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ohsnapzafingcu &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and as for the rigid dyno graph, before my dizzy kept messing up. some of my cylinders might not even be firing right.. i'll pull the plugs before i go pick up my car tomorrow and see if they are all good. 204 is real weak to me with my compression</TD></TR></TABLE>

Bad ignitiion coil/ignitor could very well be the cause of the rough lines on your dyno graph.

I was extra careful with any wiring I did on my chassis and purchased a brand new distributer, and my dyno is a very smooth line.

on another note.

I need to agree that from what i've seen, midrange would be improved with a smaller intake plenum due to intake air velocity/momentum.

I feel really dumb when i read the in depth postings that you guys throw up. Thanks for the info, the brain is sponging.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 89s1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Bad ignitiion coil/ignitor could very well be the cause of the rough lines on your dyno graph.

I was extra careful with any wiring I did on my chassis and purchased a brand new distributer, and my dyno is a very smooth line.

on another note.

I need to agree that from what i've seen, midrange would be improved with a smaller intake plenum due to intake air velocity/momentum.

I feel really dumb when i read the in depth postings that you guys throw up. Thanks for the info, the brain is sponging. </TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah, before when the stock cams were in and they were doing some base pulls they said the dizzy kept cutting out.. and they took it apart and repaired it and said a bunch of lines were corroded.. how can i make sure everything in the dizzy is in tip top condition?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ohsnapzafingcu &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">how can i make sure everything in the dizzy is in tip top condition?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Test it per factory service manual.