Has anyone tried one of those water4gas setups? Just wondering what y'all think of these. Some of the info out there seems pretty compelling, but I always shy away from stuff that looks like it has to be sold like snake oil...

thoughts?

 

My thoughts;

https://honda-tech.com/zeroforum/40

 

oh whoops, my bad...

 

No but I have found a review sites claiming to double mileage http://www.water4gasdownloads.com/. I don't know much about this HHO energy but it sounds like a hoax. Have anyone purchased the e-books?

 

Okay, here's what I have found.
1. Most of the sites selling or promoting this technology have no clue of how it works. The advertising that says "run your car on water" or "run your car on hydrogen" is full of crap. The marketing is serving to discredit a valid technology.

2. The science indicates that these devices actually work. The benefit from introducing hydrogen and oxygen (from disassociating water) is NOT from the energy produced when they recombine. The mode of action is the the mixture of hydrogen and oxygen in the combustion air causes a much faster and more complete combustion of the fuel vapor resulting in much greater efficiency.


I have just installed one on my '91 Civic Wagon AWD, too soon to report if there are any improvements.


Here is a link to an actual scientific webpage with pertinent info:

http://www.sae.org/technical/papers/2000-01-2791

This link is to a page with more detailed info, though it appears to have some for-profit connections

http://www.ntpefs.com/idaho_na....html


Modified by crsauls at 10:39 PM 6/22/2008

 

 

Car is a '91 Civic Wagon "Real-Time 4WD"
Previous owner reported general mpg 27 (EPA highway estimate also 27), best ever 30 mpg.
I made 2 runs over the same stretch of I-5 (one south, one north) ~190 miles each before installation of the cell. Averaged 32.6 mpg., the two runs agreed within .4 mpg.

After installation of the device, I averaged 35.5 mpg repeating the identical runs, with the two runs agreeing within .5 mpg.

This is not 50% or even 30% improvement, but then I think that Honda motors are quite efficient to begin with. This is an 8.8% improvement, which equals almost $.40/gal at the current price of $4.47. Doesn't blow the doors off, but I'll take it.

Next test is to install it on my '91 Civic DX HB.
I currently get 40 mpg on the same stretch of I-5 at speeds of 70-75 mph. Curious to see what happens. Will advise.

 

Hi all. I'm looking for info on HHO installations in OBD-I Accords with fuel injection.

crsauls,

did you install any sensor enhancers along with your HHO generator??

I hear the MAP sensor enhancer is essential to achieving numbers like 50% efficiency.

 

Yes, In order to get anything out of this type of setupyou will need to hack both your MAP and your O2 sensors signals. If you plan on doing all of this you may want to add a dyno tune to the end of your list of things to do. It would probably net you the best gains for fuel economy in the end. I haven't seen any of these HHO threads mention anything about using dynos for the fine tuning of timing or fuel. The more you read into it these HHO DIY setups. The more you'll start to find out that it's not as easy as they make it sound to get these great fuel saving numbers.

 

Same subject, com0pletely different vehicle, but my friend put his own hydrogen maker on his Dodge Diesel truck and he got 5 more miles per gallon. He built the whole thing for about $30 2 years ago before everyone was trying to save $$ at the pump.

It worked for him, and he did not need to change any sensors or program anything. That is what the sensors are for, to adjust fuel flow based on need.

 

Completely different fuel metering and combustion process as well.... Your comparing Apples to Oranges. No biggie though, That seems to be the way people try to compare things sometimes to justify 5mpg. I can get 5mpg just by changing my driving habits....I'm not totally knocking this system but yes it does take more than just adding an HHO producing cylinder to a PGMFI vehicle to see numbers worth the trouble.

 

True, thats why I didn't bother

 

Not true.The science indicates that the fuel will burn with higher emissions and no increase in efficiency when hydrogen is added in these quantities.The amount of hydrogen in the study you linked is MUCH larger.-Ben

 

My friend has been using it on his carb Jeep.He gets about 7 mph more with the system.He still is fine tuning the system.It is amazingly crude.

 

No he doesn't.Test it again.-Ben

 

I was very skeptical myself.He has built and tested a few of the designs that are out there on the internet.The one he is playing with now gives a reasonable draw on the stock alternator.He drove in one direction with the device off on a full tank.Refilled,turned on the device, and drove home.He filled the tank and calculated the millage.He is a very conservative driver in his late fifty's.I suspect that the mileage increase on an efficient vehicle would be less.This is not a "conservation of energy" issue.It's more of an issue off getting all the energy out of a gallon of gas.

 

This test is completely flawed. The wind was going the other way on the trip home and there no way to compare the 2 consumptions.

There is a change in your consumption, but it isn't due to increased efficiency. Instead the engine is running lean as there is more oxygen mixed with the fuel then what is being mixed already. This tricks the system and gets you past the emission controls. Basically ruining your engine and pumping out more emissions just to make this device "appear" to work.

It does not.

This is a conservation of energy issue. The device does not make petrol burn more completely or efficiently, that is a straight up lie by the scammers who sell it.
Science tells us the opposite is true, studies show that adding 25% hydrogen to diesel fuel will increase it's efficiency. Studies also show that adding under 1% hydrogen will decrease efficiency, break the catalytic converter, and increase emission.

It's not only a scam but an illegal modification to circumvent the emission control system.

-Ben

 

Trust me,I am not selling this idea.I spent months telling him that this can't work.This guy has driven this Jeep for several years,he knows what it gets for typical mileage.There wasn't a 30 mph tale wind on the way home.I told him most of what you brought up in your reply.His honest results have me a little more open minded on this subject.So far I don't think his has spent $100 yet (aside from his own time).

 

I won't trust you, at this stage it's starting to look like you're a shill for water4gas.

His test means............ *nothing*

It just confirms that the scam works very well.

The milage change is from running lean, it will screw up his jeep.

How much is an engine rebuild?

What happens when it's impounded for illegal modification?

-Ben

 

I'm not sure what the "scam" is.The info is available for free all over the internet.The components are readily available from a hardware store for less than a good lunch.Would I try it on my car? Not yet. And lord knows that no one around here would drive a car with modifications.

 

**** i get 30+mpg at 10lbs

 

The ebook costs $96.

It is very much a scam.

It sounds plasable. It isn't.

-Ben

 

Before I begin, here is my setup:
-1993 Del Sol Si
-1994 JDM GSR engine swap
-Comptech icebox intake,
Comptech 4-2-1 header, Kteller High Flow Cat., custom 2.25" exhaust to a Comptech Muffler.

I tried it and it works... so far.

I didn't bother wasting my money on purchasing the e-book, i just bitorrentedededed it and someone had it online. Saved myself $50 right there.

But i did purchase a DIY kit ($60 shipped) where they send you all the parts necessary and you put it together yourself.

HHO-unlimited.com.

Tonight after work, I installed the system, went to the gas station. Filled up with 6.1 gallons on 177.4 miles = 29.08mpg (mostly highway). Then drove up and down Santiago Canyon road (no traffic) in Orange County, CA. Filled up again. Here are my first results.

1.3 gallons on 50.9miles = 39.1mpg highway. That's roughly a 35% increase.

Not bad, not bad at all.

 

All you've done is changed the fuel-air mix.

Circumvents emission control and makes your car run dirty.

-Ben

 

I am sure MrYellow's negative attitude is because he is one of the 'high paid executives who do not want you to know this secret' they always mention in these scams, er . . uh .. advertisments.