EDIT: Not a Tial WG Issue!

So I just got back from a D-Jet to set up my PWM boost control to race my car next week, I totally turned the PWM off on the first pull and was highly suprised to see 26psi at 6000rpm, car was building boost like I have no WG at all!

I dont possibly know what is wrong with it.... any suggestions? I have 1 large line coming from the back of the IM that goes to the side port, and that line is cut and Tee'd to my Boost Solenoid. I had the WG apart not that long ago to put a smaller spring in it and I realized I couldnt really go any smaller anyway, I also noticed the diaphram was folded over on itself but I fixed that. Any suggestions for things to check before I pm Tial about this? This WG doesnt even have 100 miles on it so it should be fine, and it worked in Dec when I tuned.


Modified by 96 GSR-T at 9:38 PM 5/29/2008


Modified by 96 GSR-T at 2:03 PM 6/2/2008

 

take the boost controler completely off and run one line from pressure source to side port and see what happens

 

it shouldnt matter should it? the boost controller was turned off completely. Ill have to wait for some other time because I just wasted $80 on the dyno

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 96 GSR-T &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">it shouldnt matter should it? the boost controller was turned off completely. Ill have to wait for some other time because I just wasted $80 on the dyno</TD></TR></TABLE>
it doens't make much sense, but 99% of the time it works

 

if its still connected to the top wg port, u probably have a normally open solenoid so it will overboost as much as it can lol

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RedR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if its still connected to the top wg port, u probably have a normally open solenoid so it will overboost as much as it can lol</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have an AEM Solenoid..... normally closed

 

Do you have the connections to the boost controller setup right? Middle port should the filter.....the connection on the left should go to the top of the wastegate and the right side should be teed into the turbo (boost source) and the bottom port of the wastegate.

If thats correct....try like Tial said and just run a hose from the turbo to the bottom port of the gate....that will atleast narrow down the problem.

 

Yup its hooked up correctly, before I even try the single hose I am going to pull the gate apart and inspect the diaphram and other things. Its really kind of hard to test this car on the street.... 500whp off the WG spring is not the best thing for trying to put a load on the tires to build boost, which was why I was on the dyno.

 

I've got a similar issue, my 44mm is hitting 15-16lbs with a .8bar spring~11 psi, with just a vac line, no MBC... I emailed Tial on Tuesday, still no word from them.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Shockster0429 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've got a similar issue, my 44mm is hitting 15-16lbs with a .8bar spring~11 psi, with just a vac line, no MBC... I emailed Tial on Tuesday, still no word from them.</TD></TR></TABLE>

= crappy wastegate port positioning on the manifold (typically issue on 80% of the manifolds on the market today)

 

It sounds like there's a couple of different ways to connect that solenoid. Even with 0% duty cycle, one of the ways always keeps the wastegate closed.



Fail Safe Setup -Connect Port 1 to your boost-only source. Port 2 is connected to the top of the wastegate. Port 3 is vented to atmosphere.

Pros - If the solenoid fails and is stuck shut, your max boost is what the spring can make
Cons - Solenoid is always at high duty cycle at low boost to promote spooling the turbo faster.
Logic - More duty cycle % = higher boost. So, 80% duty means higher boost than 20% duty.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fast Spool Setup -Connect Port 3 to your boost-only source. Port 2 is connected to the top of the wastegate. Port 1 is vented to atmosphere.

Pros - Always puts boost on top of the wastegate to keep it shut to promote spool. Solenoid is always running a low duty cyle except when it needs to turn down the boost.
Cons - If you lose power to the solenoid boost will go as high as the turbo can go.
Logic - More duty cycle % = lower boost. So, 80% duty means lower boost than 20% duty.

 

i feel your pain, i have upgraded from a 38mm tial to a 44mm tial on my manifold to control the creep. it will hold 11-12lbs fine till around 6k rpm, then it creeps upwards to 15+lbs. i am going to try the single vac hose route as well, to try to narrow the issue down. i was previously running a dual stage boost controller. i want to run boost control with the s300, i just need to figure out why its creeping.


there was a post on here as well about how some of the 44mm Tials came from the factory with a slightly thinner shim on the main shaft. causes them to not hold boost correctly.

Edit: not sure if your w.g rotates but if it does that could be your problem.

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread/2084766



Modified by speeddave at 6:23 PM 5/29/2008

 

Its definately not rotating, the line that I had coming off my T to the Solenoid was rather large for the small nipples on the AEM Solenoid, I had 3 zipties on it but when I pulled the line off the IM and blew into it I found leakage at the Solenoid....... hopefully that is the problem, I also pulled apart the WG and the diaphram was a little crinked up again but I think I got it tucked back in there. I am going to try a street pull tomorrow and see how that goes.

Back when I was tuned I was creeping from 15 to 20psi off the WG spring, come to find out I had 38mm hole in my Manifold with a 44mm Flange welded over it, so I bored that out over the winter and was hoping all was going to be well and to my suprise it wasnt.

 

I had the same problem with my pwm boost control yesterday. my boost solenoid was bad. I held rock solid 10 psi and with solenoid I was hitting boost cut at 17 psi.

Hook the wastegate straight to vacume source.

 

hope you find the problem

 

just route the bottom wastegate port to a vaccum source like was said above before you go crazy.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by miller &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">just route the bottom wastegate port to a vaccum source like was said above before you go crazy. </TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Shockster0429 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've got a similar issue, my 44mm is hitting 15-16lbs with a .8bar spring~11 psi, with just a vac line, no MBC... I emailed Tial on Tuesday, still no word from them.</TD></TR></TABLE>
i'm looking at tech, contact, sales and one other email account, there is no e-mail about the problem you described, try to resend it - our spam filter is quite harsh

 

anytime the boost is going high, i always eliminate the boost controller all together. like tial said, it pretty much always fixes the problem.

thats why we have a nrl ams-1000 on the dyno. i probably have 500 hours of diagnostic time trying to figure out customers boost controller issues and fighting unstable boost control issues.

ive never seen a tial gate not work properly unless the diaphragm was old and clapped out

 

1/4"

 

Ok, I am going to try something different. I had my charge pipe tapped in Dec right at the Turbo and ran that less than 1' right to the side port. I am going to get a 1/8 NPT to 1/4 Barb fitting and tap my charge pipe and do it that way. I have the source coming off a smaller nipple off the IM currently to some 1/4 line, probably a good 4' of hose. After I do that and I still end up overboosting I will turn my attention to the WG, thanks for the help so far

 

why dont you have your wastegate vac lines hooked up to the turbo compressor like everyone else ? or atleast your intake manifold...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by welfarepc &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why dont you have your wastegate vac lines hooked up to the turbo compressor like everyone else ? or atleast your intake manifold...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not everybody uses the compressor housing, I have completely new endtanks and a new chargepipe which is why its not on my chargepipe now.

And I have stated atleast twice now that its hooked up to the Intake Manifold, where else would it be hooked to?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 96 GSR-T &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">it shouldnt matter should it? the boost controller was turned off completely. Ill have to wait for some other time because I just wasted $80 on the dyno</TD></TR></TABLE>

Take the AEM solenoid off and see what it does. What TiAL is saying is that you might have a bad (read: leaking) solenoid. If it's Ted off your feed line... well... overboost!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 96 GSR-T &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Not everybody uses the compressor housing, I have completely new endtanks and a new chargepipe which is why its not on my chargepipe now.

And I have stated atleast twice now that its hooked up to the Intake Manifold, where else would it be hooked to?</TD></TR></TABLE>
hooked to intake manifold = BAD