I recently started autocrossing and am hooked. I'm dropping my times and getting smoother every run.

Anyway, my basically stock 98 Integra GS is really turning out to be woefully inadequate for the job. Not talking about speed here, as I am already running within a few seconds of most GSRs that are prepped better and have more experience than me. I'm talking more about how the car is handling the "abuse" of an AutoX every other week.

After just 8 runs in a decently paved parking lot(Turner Field in ATL), my front Bridgestone Potenza RE71's are looking REALLY bad on the outsides, there is some major chunking around the whole outside edge. I drive like a sane individual on the street, so I already had ~28k miles on them and they had at least 40% of the tread left(140 treadwear + 40k miles = grandma driver??? ) Now I think the next event or two is going to make my tires worthless, and I really can't afford to be replacing my street tires every half season. I really need 1.5-2 degrees of negative camber to keep my tires from being eaten up within a few events. Unfortunately that also means more money for springs/shocks that I really don't have right now.

So I have decided to start actively searching for my long time dream car, a MkII(91-95) MR2 Turbo. I don't plan on finding one before this AutoX season is well over, so that would give me some time to get familiar with it before really pushing it.

The question to this drawn out post is,

Are MR2 Turbo's competitive in B-stock with maybe Koni shocks and a decent alignment? I don't see any out here AutoXing in ATL, so I really have no idea how they compare against the 944 Turbos and Z32 300ZX's that run in B-stock here. FYI, they usually run ~57-60 seconds on a course I can currently run a ~64-65 second run on. With practice, I think I could get my car to be a solid ~62-63 second car on the courses they usually set up here.

I know NA 5SFE MR2's are very competitive in E Stock, but jeez, I don't think I could take a step DOWN in HP from my already slow Integra GS for a car I drive out on the street.

Sorry for the length, and thanks for any responses.

 

The 5SFE MR2 is probably just as fast in a straight line as your Integra, and likely has more low end torque.

That being said, the MR2 turbo should be competitive locally (based on what you describe), but with one exception, they are a has-been nationally. There is ONE driver out there that seems to still win in the car, and his isn't an ordinary MR2 turbo. His doesn't have T tops. Good luck finding one without half the chassis cut out.

The S2000 and the Boxter are the 2 cars to have in BS (lately, the S2000 is the only car to have), and everyone else is racing for the remaining trophy positions.

A properly maintained MR2 turbo with good shocks and good tires should be a blast to drive, and do well locally, so I say go for it. Save a few dollars and get a '94 Celica ST and run it in GS and win every event for sure... Soft index, low price, and -2 degrees negative camber (unless Rick Cone or Ken Rupp come out to your local events).

Scott


[Modified by celica73, 1:24 PM 7/16/2002]

 

Hey Def, what kind of tire pressures you running? On my street tires I can't run lower than 43 on the fronts because otherwise the outsides will get chewed up too much. This is with 1.5 deg of neg camber. I'm also from atl, so I'll see you at turner field in august. I usually autox my dark red talon awd and now I'm thinking about running it in SM.

Were you there at turner field last event? A good friend of mine and often my co-driver at the autox, Jay Parcon, with his black non turbo MR2 MKII running ES completely blew away the ES field (9 cars). He also beat all the CS cars and also cleared the BS field by almost 1.5 seconds. Imagine what he would have done with a turbo MR2! He is an excellent driver, definitely in the top few at ATL, but it shows how much a part can a driver play in autox. (It's also true that he has over 10 years of driving (rally, solo, road racing) experience behind him.) So you should not have a problem winning regionally with a MR2 turbo, even at larger events (180+ drivers) like we have in Atlanta once you get some experience.

I also autocrossed and drove on the track both Jay's MR2 and also another friend's turbo MR2. They are extremely fun cars to drive! Definitely get one if you find a good deal and don't mind the reduced versatility of these cars.

And yes, both Ken Rupp and Rick Cone are very fast in those Celicas. They're from atlanta, so they always come out to turner field. When I used to autox the ITR last year, it was great having Ken Rupp there in the celica. (He is a super nice and helpful guy) and beating his time in the celica was a good way to know if I did relatively "ok" for GS, something that was not always that easy! I'm still impressed at how fast those two guys can drive those "simple" little Celicas GT...

 

Thanks for the replies guys.

NA MkII MR2's are fast on an AutoX course, but I think they only run ~16.8-17.0 @ ~82mph in the 1320. While I don't drag race my car, I'd at least like to be able to not be beaten by Geo Metro's at every stoplight. Plus a good condition MkII MR2T seems to go for only a few thousand more than a NA MR2, so why not go with the better engine?

Hracer,

I have been to the last two events and am planning on going this Sunday. Going to try to make it to every event left. Maybe I'll see you out at the next event. I just have a silver Integra GS(that looks stock). Just come up and say "Hi". My name is Jacob BTW. I usually try to run in the morning sessions due to the heat(and since I'm still a novice), not sure if that will be the same time SM runs for points.

I have found that 48psi front and 32 psi rear is the sweet spot for my car. Anymore up front and I can actually get a little bit of a drift going around corners(only have a rear swaybar, so the rear end is markedly stiffer than the front). The rears are fine, but it just seems the tires are too sticky for their sidewall stiffness(which is considerable). I also have a stock amount of negative camber, and I can't get anymore thanks to Honda and their lack of suspension adjustment.

I'm not sure the guy's name, but a ProSolo driver has a silver new-style Celica GT that absolutely flies. I wish I could run in the 54.xx's with just my little old Integra. Although even with R compound tires, it looks like his Celica doesn't "wallow" as much as 3G Integras tend to.


Now to start looking for a good condition MR2 Turbo. I have a feeling I'll be looking for a long time to come...


Thanks for the advice guys.

 

I was under the impression that the N/A MR2's would run low to mid 15's, while the Turbo models would run mid 14's. Right? No way they run a 17 second 1/4 mile.

Keep your eyes open on autotrader.com, message forums, etc - just as long as you're willing to travel a little bit to pick up a car.

 

Def, I'm only going to start doing autox again in August when I get back in town. So I won't be there at the next event. I also ran earlier this year in STX, but since there isn't much competition and I missed too many points events anyway, I'll run SM when I come back. I'll still be running the Azenis street tires (since it's still an stx car), but it's way more fun having competition even if we don't win. I would suggest you get the Azenis for the street as they can take pretty well (for street tires) the abuse of autox. And this is on a 3100 lbs car

And that silver celica GT you saw was Ken Rupp. He's been doing (and winning) pro solos and national tours with that celica for at least couple of years now I believe. (If a fast blue celica GT shows up, that's Rick Cone who also has been traveling to pro solos and nat tours.) Ken's pretty quick, no?


edit: wanted to add some stuff about tire pressures. Did you try running a little lower than 48 in the front by any chance? Does the tire roll over too much if you do?


[Modified by Hracer, 11:51 AM 7/16/2002]

 

As mentioned previously, the MR2T should be competitive locally (depending on who's local to you) but nationally, it's outclassed by the S2000 and Boxster. It's a great car, however, so that shouldn't stop you from getting one if you truly love it. Since it's a mid-engine RWD car, it might take some time adjusting to it. You can't get away with the heavy trail-braking that used to work well for a FWD car. Try that in an MR2, and around you go. You'll spin it quite a few times before you get the hang of it.

For MKII MR2's, there are essentially 2 models, the 91-92 and the 93-95's. Early models had 14" rims and a "looser" suspension which made the car a bit tricky to drive. Later models have 15" rims, larger brakes, and a more forgiving suspension. I'm unsure about the availability of an LSD on early models, but I do know that it was featured on later ones.

It's debateable which model is superior. The early ones are a little lighter, probably easier to find one of the hardtops (you really dont want T-tops, too much flex; sunroof cars should be ok, but not optimal). In later models, they only made 20 or so 93 hardtops. Talk about rare!

Regarding the NA MR2, the same issues exist regarding 91-92's and 93-95's (suspension, 14 v 15's). Hardtops are a little more plentiful among NA's, but for some strange reason, a lot of NA's seems to have fried motors (I have a few friends who've shopped around for MR2s). Motors are cheap anyway.

For autoX, the NA is a great car, in fact it's THE car to have for ES. But, you're right, for everyday driving it's painfully slow.

Back to turbos: there is a proposal for a reclass next year that will move the S2K and Boxster up to AS, thus leaving BS open to a few of the older cars like the Porsche 968, E36 M3, and MR2T. It might be better to wait for that reclass (if it even happens) before you buy an MR2.

BTW, you can easily fit 4 race tires in an MR2 (1 in the spare well, 1 behind pass seat, 2 on the pass seat) and still have room in the trunk for all the miscellaneous autoX gear!

Check mr2.xcars.com, they have a pretty good classified section there.

 

Thanks for the replies guys, didn't think I'd get this many on a non-Honda topic.

NA MkII MR2's are really really slow. Think B18B1 Integra with about 120lbs more, 5hp less(135hp) and a bit more torque(2.2L motor, but not as efficient as a Honda engine, so like 145lb-ft I think). I'm sick of not being able to pull up small hills with a passenger and my AC on at less than 4k RPM.

I'm aware of the differences in MR2 generations, that's why I think I'm leaning towards a '93+ car. Mainly due to it having 15" wheels, larger brakes and definitely having an LSD(no '91's had LSDs, while a few '92's did, all 93+ did). Although that probably means I'm definitely looking at a T-Top car. Oh well, used cars can't be made to order. Another thing that is irking me is that low mileage(less than 100k mi) MR2T's are going for outrageous amounts. At least people are asking for outrageous amounts IMO. Over $15-16k for an almost 10 year old $27k car with 40-60k miles on it is crazy. I just hope I can find a good condition '93 for about $11k. That'd probably give me a little left over from the sale of my car to replace alot of wear items on it.

HRacer,
If I drop my pressures anymore than about 46-48psi, the tires do tend to rollover more. I also seem to get the best grip with this pressure range. Keep in mind I'm running 205/50-15's on the stock 15x6" rims, so they buldge out a bit which I'm sure doesn't help my situation. Azenis seem to sit much flusher than my tires, and the tread section actually doesn't look as wide even though people talk about how wide they are on this board.

Look me up whenever you come back to AutoX. I'm having a blast meeting tons of people at every event.