Alright guys i have installed my turbo kit today after like years of wanting a turbo honda. Any way. Im just gonna get straight to my problem. Everytime i try to go WOT the car backfires and it wont let it go past like 4 grand. It like seems its cutting out for some reason. However if i just give a little throttle it red lines no problem. The car builds boost fine or it seems like it wants to but then the backfire comes in and the car just loses power. I have purchased basemaps from Chris at Xenocron. My setup is a turbonetics .48ar turbo and precision 525cc saturated injectors. While installing the injectors i have noticed that they fit really weird and wont go all the way in the Intake manifold. Idk if that has anything to do with the problem are they supposed to be like that?. However the car idels fine. I have also installed a walboro 255 fuel pump. I only swapped the pumps and am not sure if i was supposed to do anything else such as wire in resistors or anything. Oh i forgot its a stock gsr engine. I have retarded the timing on the distributor and grapped the plugs to .03. Idk if im forgeting to mention anything else. Help would be greatly appreciated as i need my car back and running by tuesday. lol

 

Also does anyone have a picture of their precision 525 installed on their car?

 

Few questions:

How much boost are you running?
What MAP sensor is on the car?
What management?

Pictures would help regarding the injector fitment, sometimes you need to use different cushion rings, but can't say for certain until you post some pics.

 

I am running a turbonetics deltagate wastegate with a 7-9 psi spring.
Im using the stock map sensor but that should be good till 12lbs or so.
Management is ECtune Chris from Xenocron made basemaps for my setup.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GsrIntegra789 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am running a turbonetics deltagate wastegate with a 7-9 psi spring.
Im using the stock map sensor but that should be good till 12lbs or so.
Management is ECtune Chris from Xenocron made basemaps for my setup.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's the thing, they are BASEMAPS, meaning that it wasn't tuned yet to be able to run WOT for the amount of boost you're trying to make. This basemap is simply a way to get you to the tuner to get it properly tuned. Stop attempting to go WOT until the unit is tuned completely. Since you only have a stock map sensor, we're not sure where you're supposed to be..

 

yeah your tune if f'ed. Most likely its too rich in the low boost columns causing it to buck and back fire.

My car was doing the same thing after I switched to open loop from closed loop. But seriously your car needs to be tuned.

 

Definitely have the car tuned properly, the base map will never be dead on.

It's tough to be certain on any of this, but some general things to go over in the meantime:

Ensure ignition timing is set to 16 degrees..the ECU requires base ignition to be set.
NGK BKR7E (#6097), gap them a bit tighter...0.22-.026
Double-check for any CEL's

 

Here are the pictures of the setup and of the injectors. Check out the gap. The injectors will not go into the intake manifold like the stock ones did. Im pretty sure that is the cause of all this. Can someone confirm? And about the basemaps it is possible chris made a mistake. However, we turbod my friends ls last month and we used basemaps from chris. Hes still beating on the car now ..it will redline and the car runs fine. He never had problems like this.

 

the injectors look fine to me


your friend is also taking a chance every time he beats on his car, you need to set base timing to 16 and get it atleast street tuned by a competent tuner... since your on ectune? i imagine you will have to have xenocron tune it for you

 

about the injectors. The problem with them is that they wont go inside the runners like the stock ones do. This is why im asking people who have used precision in the past if theirs does go inside the runner. i will have xenocron tune it. But they recently moved and it would be a while since they start tuning again. Also i would probably be the last guy on the list since its done by appointment and theyre back up for weeks.

 

you need to extend the placement of your dump tube also

 

A GSR shortblock will set you back $500-800 in parts alone. A dyno/street tune combo will set you back $400-500 - AND help make another 200 possible WHP, given the current state of your tune. Its also a lot easier to strap a car down to rollers than change out an engine block...

Chris did not make a mistake. A basemap for a Honda will virtually never be spot-on. People blow their motors ALL THE TIME running just a basemap, thinking if it feels like it's making power, there's no way it could blow the motor. The last friend that I knew who ran a basemap, did so for 3 days. Day 1 it pulled hard, day 2 is was weak and smoked bad, day 3 it would barely go 25mph WOT. Shattered all 4 pistons with the basemap.

You can always find someone who has a wideband and can give you a rough street tune for a decent price. Otherwise leave the car sit.


You've waited this long, so what is a few more weeks?

 

Get that bitch tuned. A basemap is that a basemap.

 

1. if you dont have a fuel leak then whats the concern? the fuel is going inside your intake manifold so whats the problem?

2. why are you dumping your exhaust gasses right into your turbo inlet?

3. put a filter on

Landon

 

your injectors are fine. the bottom seal isn't supposed to sit like stock. the injector just sits on top of it, then when you tighten down the fuel rail, it should put pressure on the injector against the seal.

and like everyone else said, put the timing back to 16 degrees.

 

as stated above, have ur dumptube routed under the oil pan. and get the car tune. if u really want to stick with eCtune then wait for chris to get his new location in order. or if you cant wait there are a few shops in NJ and even NY that tune cars.

 

I will have the dump tube extended today. I have already contacted a few shops about tuning so im just waiting for a reply.
So you guys are saying that those injectors do not go into the runner? They kinda just sit uptop? The guy who sold them to be (MBRACING) said they are supposed to go into the port. He said he will stop by later tonight to check them out and replace them if it is a bad batch. Which is really nice of him to do. I guess i have to wait for him and the tuners to get back to me. I am very surprised that this has happened. This is the 6th honda i have turbod and this is the only one that i have had a problem with that i cant figure out on the spot. I am also known for not being a very patient person so this is definitely getting on my nerves.
What you guys are saying about the car running rich makes alot of sense. Im no tuner but like i said if i try to go WOT the car backfires and wont rev further. Kind of like as if i were to flood it. Chris probably just added so much fuel its causing this. I could be wrong tho. I just dont want to bring it to a tuner and have him say its something mechanical. Even though i know i did everything right.


Modified by GsrIntegra789 at 9:50 AM 5/25/2008

 

tune that ish....

 

The injectors have about a 1/8-1/4" gap compared to stock. It's not a big deal. If the injectors are in the port, fit in the fuel rail properly, and the fuel rail is tightened down properly, the injectors are installed properly and don't worry about that.

Next thing, STOP GOING TO FULL THROTTLE. Basemap + WOT = STUPID. Pretend you just got the car from the dealership and you have to wait 500 miles before you can really get on the gas. Do whatever it takes to trick your mind into believing that you should take it easy on your car

Lastly, set the timing back to 16* BTDC.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nowtype &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The injectors have about a 1/8-1/4" gap compared to stock. It's not a big deal. If the injectors are in the port, fit in the fuel rail properly, and the fuel rail is tightened down properly, the injectors are installed properly and don't worry about that.

Next thing, STOP GOING TO FULL THROTTLE. Basemap + WOT = STUPID. Pretend you just got the car from the dealership and you have to wait 500 miles before you can really get on the gas. Do whatever it takes to trick your mind into believing that you should take it easy on your car

Lastly, set the timing back to 16* BTDC.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That is just it tho..The injectors are not in the port. they are just resting on top of it kinda. I am deff gonna get a tune once i weld my exhaust up.

 

If its not leaking then i wouldn't worry about it. You can trim a little out the grommet that it sits in for a better fit.

 

Either the injector is in the port or out. Typically to install these injectors I do as follows.

1) Take stock grommet and apply a little grease to the inside of them.
2) Place grommet inside of injector bung/port.
3) Place injectors into grommet with a little force so that they are just barely in.
4) Align fuel rail so that the injectors sit in the fuel rail and the fuel rail is on the bolt.
5) Slowly and evenly tighten nut to bolt to tighten fuel rail. This will also push the injectors into the grommets. The key to do this successfully is tightening the rail slowly and evenly.

Once the rail nut is as tight as it can be(you will know right away because the rail will be as far down as it can be on the bolt) the injectors are installed correctly and in as far as they can be.

It's that easy.

 

I appreciate the info. I am unable to tighten the fuel rail down as much as its supposed to go bc the injectors will break. i would like to see some pictures or something of someone installing these injectors that would let me know right away if theyre ok or not. And the people who are saying if its not leaking then dont worry about it are looking at it the wrong way. If the squirter isnt where its supposed to be it can cause a big issue. Just bc its not leaking does not mean the problem is gone.

 

Exactly as nowtype said, they're either in or out.

The fuel rail aligns the injector in the bung, so spray angle is going to stay the same as the bung angle. I would use Vaseline, place the top of the injector into the rail, align on the M8 studs and slowly tighten each nut, evenly.

If you're concerned with if they're fully seated or not, and there is no fuel leak, then look at your boost gauge, if you have one, and check out what vacuum is.

I would say either do the following:

Let the car sit and wait for an appointment.
-or-
Pull the wastegate spring out, put stock injectors back in, and drive like a grandma until your tune date.

You put this much money and effort in so far, would be a shame to see something happen due to getting antzy.

 

The Injectors look fine, get it out of your head that they are the cause of your car running funny..... its running funny because its not tuned, and you are boosting it with a .030 plug gap on top of the untuned engine. Your base timing is probably out of wack too, stop trying to floor your car, it problem isnt going to magically go away the more you beat on your car.