was just reading the june issue of honda tuning and saw troy kordenbrocks eg civic. on the bottom of page 44 it reads .........

"headwork comes in the form of skunk2 valve springs, retainers, and gsr camshafts with custom kms rocker lockers. the rocker lockers eliminate low-to-high vtec engagement, leaving the engine in a high-cam-engaged state throughout the powerband.".......

i have never seen this before. i would like to hear from kms and im intrested to know if the motor benefited from this setup on the dyno. i would also like to hear a sound clip if possible. what do you guys think.

 

um call the company.

 

anyone care to say why this is a good or bad idea?

 

good idea for track only cars, pointless on a dd car...

 

could you explain please?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rash &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If its only eliminating "low vtec" and not the normal non-vtec lobe of the cam, I don't see what the hurt would be on a daily driver.

It basically just turns the i-vtec back into normal vtec status.

Anyone else?</TD></TR></TABLE>

no, what it does is make the cam run in vtec mode the whole time pretty much

like the toda vtec killer cams

this is why they suck for daily
http://youtube.com/watch?v=npN...lated

 

https://www.raceeng.com/p-4457....aspx

 

the lockers will lock the rockers together so that you will be using the largest of the cam lobes (v-tec lobe) all the time. i would think this would hurt low end performance due to the vtec lobe being to "big" to make decent low end power. it would probably make the same peak power imo because you really arent changing anything up top, the motor is still running off of the same v-tec lobe as before.

i believe the theory behind this is that it makes it easier to tune the motor w/o having the v-tec crossover in the way.

 

wouldnt they be able to get the same effect by just setting the vtec crossover to 1000rpm?

 

the main benefit is light weight

 

is it like roller rockers where you remove the smaller rockers and only leave the VTEC rocker?

or is it just like VTEC is always engaged, with oil pressure and whatnot, because i don't really see any forseeable gain there

i couldn't find any info on their site

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jlude90 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">is it like roller rockers where you remove the smaller rockers and only leave the VTEC rocker?

or is it just like VTEC is always engaged, with oil pressure and whatnot, because i don't really see any forseeable gain there

i couldn't find any info on their site</TD></TR></TABLE>
I think its like when vtec is ALWAYS engaged but I think what Honda designed vtec for is the higher hp and torque that you cannot gain with the regular cam profiles but is only usefull in the end of the rpm band. which is why it is set at around 5-6K rpm. because with that many revs, the reg cam profiles cannot allow enough fuel/air mix into the cyls to produce the same power gained with the vtec lobe. So with the invention of vtec and the higher cam profiles it allows that neccesary juice to get the wanted power. But heres the thing. when you lock those rockers in place and only allow the vtec lobe to operate all the time, it doesnt produce the same low end torque and power it does later in the band, thus there really isnt a gain for rocker lockers at all untill you hit the right rpms for that lobe. Now what I can say they have done with the rocker locker is exactly that, but to them it is more beneficial because track cars are ALWAYS in the right part of the rpm band to get the power and torque from the vtec lobe. therefore improving performance on the track alone. This is what ive come to learn but im sure i messed something up so someone will correct me eventually.

 

Its bad for a daily driver, but good for a track car. ONE CRAZY IDLE... i Run this setup in my drag car, and like the performance....some people like it and some dont

 

every other car out there that doesnt have vaiable cam lobes works just fine. We have VTEC and are spoiled by it, but by no means will this make your car run like ****. You might have a little bit of a lumpy idle but it is not that big of a deal.

 

i bought some steel pins to lock mine and then machined the small pads off. a stock set of rockers is 266grams. by doing this i got mine down to 200g.
66g x 8 sets = 528g out of the valvetrain.
i wouldnt recommend it for a daily driven car. it might be better with a smaller cam though.

i think i bought the pins from lawson if i remember correctly. i think they are 10mm dia but you better measure to be sure. then just figure out the length you need to fit through the 3 rockers. i had to slightly shorten the pins i bought.

 

coughhatertechcough

528g is rougly a pound right? Is that worth it, considering the rockers aren't really rotational mass? Or were you able to remove the non-vtec lobes from the cams too?

 

i left the lobes on the cams in case i want to run them in a conventional engine again someday.

and you accelerate the rockers as you open the valve, then they need to stop and change direction, accelerate closed and then stop on the base circle.all this is kept in control by the valve springs. so the less mass there is to control the more stable.

people make a big deal about beehive springs, titanium retainers and light valves. try getting over a pound changing those things.

i also dont run LMA's this way which is 8 more springs my engine doesnt have to compress as the valves open.

i drag race the car and dont drive it on the street so i really dont care about idle quality or economy. just valvetrain stability at high RPM.

also by doing it this way i didnt have to buy a new rocker setup and custom camshafts that only work with vtec killer rockers. i can run any shelf camshaft profile and i had extra OEM rockers laying around so i gave it a try.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lohatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i left the lobes on the cams in case i want to run them in a conventional engine again someday.

and you accelerate the rockers as you open the valve, then they need to stop and change direction, accelerate closed and then stop on the base circle.all this is kept in control by the valve springs. so the less mass there is to control the more stable.

people make a big deal about beehive springs, titanium retainers and light valves. try getting over a pound changing those things.

i also dont run LMA's this way which is 8 more springs my engine doesnt have to compress as the valves open.

i drag race the car and dont drive it on the street so i really dont care about idle quality or economy. just valvetrain stability at high RPM.

also by doing it this way i didnt have to buy a new rocker setup and custom camshafts that only work with vtec killer rockers. i can run any shelf camshaft profile and i had extra OEM rockers laying around so i gave it a try.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I might try this, but my car is my DD. I don't really give a crap though.

 

What about swapping the shorter and longer pin around to see how it works for you, if you like it then you can make it permanent and grind the rockers down, be careful they are heat treated and hard so you will weaken them quite a bit if you make them too thin.

 

where do you buy the rocker locker pins?

 

Anyone know?