just wondering if anyone has experimented with E85 with N/A setup or drive daily on pump gas 93 octane......ive been wondering about this where i live theres not to many stations that sells E85 but a local guy here won the dynomax dyno challenge with his rambler on E85 but havent heard of anyone experimenting with a import

 

nevermind found it in search

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by stroker8950 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">nevermind found it in search</TD></TR></TABLE>

Imagine that!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by stroker8950 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> with his rambler on E85 </TD></TR></TABLE>

Lol

a rambler on e 85?

In for results ! ! !

hahahahahaha

 

E85 is about 100-110 octane and cheaper than pump gas, although... it does kill o2 sensors though.

Cheap high octance gas

Kills o2 sensors

 

E85 also requires, on average, 30%-40% more fuel to reach the same lambda value.

 

lol then whats the point besides it burning cleaner?

 

you can run more compression and more agressive timing but if it not local at the pump it doesn't make sense

 

can a street car benifit from e85
im talking like a h22 w 10.6.1 compression
stg 2 cams and a fully dyno tune? can e85 actually make a great difference in power on n/a set-up like that

 

We have a few pumps here in town... been curious . Just scared of what it could do to my car. I have been reading e85 info and they make it sound like it is for flex fuel style engines only

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by badboyr66 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> lol then whats the point besides it burning cleaner?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Curing dependency on foreign oil depending on who you want to believe.

 

Lucky you at least you have 93 octane here in Cali were stuck with shitty 91 octane.

 

91 here in WA

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Combustion Contraption &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Curing dependency on foreign oil depending on who you want to believe.</TD></TR></TABLE>

heh....at the cost of skyrocketing grain prices, causing food prices to increase significantly (corn going to ethanol instead of feed for livestock).

hydrogen is where we probably should be turning, but i don't see it happening large-scale for quite a while.

 

E85 also eats through rubber and certain types of plastics. the flex fuel cars all have stainless steel gas tanks and fuel lines so they don't have to worry. If you ran it in a honda it probably wouldn't hurt it if you did once but if you used it repeatedly it would more than likely eat at your valve guide seals and destroy the valve train in your head. I saw a porche that some how got more than 20% ethanol in it's system and it wasn't pretty. messed up the head real bad shattered valve springs and bent valves just from the ethanol

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bomerman19 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I saw a porche that some how got more than 20% ethanol in it's system and it wasn't pretty. messed up the head real bad shattered valve springs and bent valves just from the ethanol</TD></TR></TABLE>


That probably wasn't from the ethanol itself, it was more likely from the fact that the engine probably wasn't tuned to handle the AMOUNT of ethanol.

Same thing can happen if you're tuned for straight alky and toss 87 octane in there.


as for your comment about it eating valve guide seals, how exactly does the ethanol get inside the cylinder head to go about destroying them?

 

The Hess station by my house now has stickers on it that say "May contain 10% ethanol" And there was an artical in the newspaper about they were supposed to be building a facility here to handle E30 (30% Ethanol)I think it was...

Also I read somewhere that you could run E85 in a Honda/Acura but you had to replace the injectors with peek and hold injectors..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94GeeSeeR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The Hess station by my house now has stickers on it that say "May contain 10% ethanol" </TD></TR></TABLE>

That's the standard 89-octane, often referred to as "mid-grade". I actually get slightly better mpg out of my dd cavaqueer than with regular 87, and at $.10/gallon cheaper (on average, sometimes more) there's no reason for me not to use it.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Also I read somewhere that you could run E85 in a Honda/Acura but you had to replace the injectors with peek and hold injectors..
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Peak and not necessarily. It all depends on how much fuel you need. If you have to gradutate beyond, what is it now, 550cc? then yeah you'll probably need peak and hold injectors. There may be saturated injectors higher than that, but i wouldn't know because i'm definitely not an expert in the field. I just know enough to play one on the interwebs.


Modified by Armed Ferret at 11:19 AM 5/12/2008

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Armed Ferret &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
hydrogen is where we probably should be turning, but i don't see it happening large-scale for quite a while.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I doubt it will ever happen, and I actually hope it doesn't. The internal combustion engine will not fall out of favor until battery technology advances enough to make electric cars feasible for everyday use. I honestly don't see hydrogen fuel cells as being much better than IC engines. Especially when you consider the best methods for producing hydrogen on a large scale.

Thats a whole different thread though

 

A summary of all the things needed and benefits please.

You need stainless fuel lines, compatible pump, filter, valve guides. Where can you get these exactly? Can someone please clear this up.

A FAQ would be nice.

 

All you have to do is some old fashioned research. You can find all of the info you need to decide on your own if E85 is something you might want to use. Ethanol is way different than methanol in relation to eating up rubber hoses and corrosive nature. Added to this is that E85 has 15% gasoline, which is the lubricating properties needed to keep rubber flexible. With that being said, over time, there IS NOT enough lubricity in just that 15% gasoline to keep all the rubber seals intact and you will probably have to upgrade or replace rubber fuel hoses in the future. As far as ethanol robbing the feedstocks that we need to feed livestock, thats totally false. Ethanol is made from feedstocks as well as other biomass products such as sugar cane (not very much in the states, but Brazil uses only sugar to make their ethanol, which is their primary fuel nowadays). After feedstocks are used to produce ethanol here in the states, it doesn't destroy the feed, that same feed can still be used, and is, to feed livestocks. The processes just extract the sugars from the feed to convert this into alcohol. Also, processes are becoming much more effecient as we learn about the new ways to make it and make it better. Here in San Diego, there is 1 station for E85, with 2 more opening up in the north county. I want to try it myself as 91 octane at the moment is up to 4.30/gal. E85 in SD is 3.39/gal. At the moment it is actually more cost effecient to use standard gasoline as ethanol would have to cost depending on your setup/CR/boost/NA needs you'll have anywhere between 20-35% more fuel with E85 than gas. Meaning that the prices of ethanol would need to cost that much less than gas to be worthwhile. Although you can make more power with ethanol than gas so the comparison could also be made between the rising prices of race gas to E85 since thats the real power comparisons. I've done quite a bit of research, as well as friends of mine. I run only a NA vehicle, so i would predict only needing 20-25% more fuel with E85 vs. boosted vehicles that would want more like 35% more fuel to make the most power, but that is also where you'll see lots more power available than can be made with 91 or 93 octane gas.

Just my thoughts and .02

 

I just finished tuning my 85 x95 14.6:1 compression motor with E85. It only wanted 20.5* timing at WOT with pro 3's. The pistons looked dark brown and so did the plugs, I have a feeling it was not enough octane for this motor after three passes the pistons and cylinder walls showed the piston to wall clearance was not enough and had zero signs of detonation. I had to use 650's @65 lbs rail pressure the duty cycle was 78%. The piston to wall clearance was 3.2 and the pistons scuffed the walls tuned @ 12.9:1 AF. I think it burned too hot for my engines high compression.

 

F@ck E85, killed a brand new set of RC's, new Aeromotive fuel pump, fuel filter ect. I put the car back on Cam2 and it made the same power, I wont ever touch the stuff after looking inside my fuel pump and seeing the damage there, on the stainless steel filter element, and the diaphragm of a new Aeromotive FPR, nothing but massive corrosion.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BearsEK-KMSU &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have a feeling it was not enough octane for this motor after three passes the pistons and cylinder walls showed the piston to wall clearance was not enough and had zero signs of detonation. I had to use 650's @65 lbs rail pressure the duty cycle was 78%. The piston to wall clearance was 3.2 and the pistons scuffed the walls tuned @ 12.9:1 AF. I think it burned too hot for my engines high compression.</TD></TR></TABLE>
E85 burns cooler than gasoline. Also, you should be tuning to Lambda. E85's stoich is 9.7:1 where as gas is 14.7:1. E85 will also clean off carbon deposits built up on the valves, and pistons.

As far as corrosion goes, good stainless will not corrode near as fast as standard steel. And the only thing it should possible mess up in injectors are the o-rings. But to each their own experiences.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DOHCter &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
E85 burns cooler than gasoline. Also, you should be tuning to Lambda. E85's stoich is 9.7:1 where as gas is 14.7:1. E85 will also clean off carbon deposits built up on the valves, and pistons.

As far as corrosion goes, good stainless will not corrode near as fast as standard steel. And the only thing it should possible mess up in injectors are the o-rings. But to each their own experiences. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Max power was 12.9:1 AF. According to FJO the company who makes the wideband I am using, They told me to tune to the same AF. If I would have tuned it much richer it wouldn't have made dick for power. @ 12.5:1 the graph was very jerky and down on power. The myth that it has to be tuned @ 9.7:1 is wrong. Every wideband is different tho.