so we're finishing up a supra at the shop right now. i posted pics of the manifold for it in a thread before but accidently gave a little too much info on pricing. so either way, heres the rest of it.

theres also a pic of the logo we are starting to put on manifolds.

the black dude in the picture is my co-worker antonio. he put the car together mechanically and is doing all the fuel and routing.

i'm pretty much handling all the fab and welding.

if your looking for a good engine builder, antonio is the man.

 

Not a fan of aluminum exhaust, or pie cut bends, but it all looks really good. I like the labeling on your manifolds too. Good job guys

 

I agree I could do without the pie cuts however I love aluminum exhausts for weight reduction.

Manifold looks good but I would suggest doing more research into manifold design to have a more efficient manifold design which will result in a longer lasting and more powerful motor.

 

mr. tyson doesnt need people to stick up for him, but I cant help myself...

eat a dick dude. there is this thing called "packaging". the most amazing manifold design in the world wont mean **** if it doesnt fit in the car. his design looks like a good design first of all and second of anything that is less than textbook perfect is the result of one of the many compromises you have to make while trying to shove a giant turbo in a not so giant space.

also, regarding the pie cuts, maybe he didn't have any 4 inch bends laying around.

 

pie cuts look time consuming . . .

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr.E.G. &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">mr. tyson doesnt need people to stick up for him, but I cant help myself...

eat a dick dude. there is this thing called "packaging". the most amazing manifold design in the world wont mean **** if it doesnt fit in the car. his design looks like a good design first of all and second of anything that is less than textbook perfect is the result of one of the many compromises you have to make while trying to shove a giant turbo in a not so giant space.

also, regarding the pie cuts, maybe he didn't have any 4 inch bends laying around. </TD></TR></TABLE>

It's called a simple suggestion. So feel free to take your own advice.

I see plenty of other manifold fabricators who include some of the most important points in manifold design on the exact same setups there's no reason he can't he's just not where they are at yet, nothing wrong with being a beginner.

Do you even know anything about a properly designed exhaust manifold or are you just trying to start ****? If so feel free to open the flood gates of your knowledge so maybe we can all learn from your vast all knowingness.

 

fab work looks awesome, but one thing tell the owner one of his rear tires is on wrong, i don't know how i noticed that but i guess thats what happens when you are on h-t

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ianatmmf &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

It's called a simple suggestion. So feel free to take your own advice.

I see plenty of other manifold fabricators who include some of the most important points in manifold design on the exact same setups there's no reason he can't he's just not where they are at yet, nothing wrong with being a beginner.

Do you even know anything about a properly designed exhaust manifold or are you just trying to start ****? If so feel free to open the flood gates of your knowledge so maybe we can all learn from your vast all knowingness.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The manifold looks very similar to a full-race t4/div 2zjgte manifold. The only thing i dislike is the use of only one wastegate. The Full Race manifold is PROVEN to make amazing power.



Well I for one would like to know what YOU think the most important points in manifold design are. I'm sure it will be a good read, haha


Amazing fab work Manifoldmiketyson, the welds could be a little cleaner but props to fitting everything in there. I personally have quite a bit of manifold fabrication experience and i know how tough 2jz's can be sometimes.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ianatmmf &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Do you even know anything about a properly designed exhaust manifold or are you just trying to start ****? If so feel free to open the flood gates of your knowledge so maybe we can all learn from your vast all knowingness.</TD></TR></TABLE>

ummmm, you started it with just a suggestion and nothing to back it up? why not provide some more insight other than:

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ianatmmf &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Manifold looks good but I would suggest doing more research into manifold design to have a more efficient manifold design which will result in a longer lasting and more powerful motor.</TD></TR></TABLE>

until you provide some pertinent knowledge to go with the running mouth, you come off as looking like the moron... sorry. any keyboard chimp can make a claim that it can be improved, protected by the anonymity of his computer, but only someone with brains can explain how... although i may be wrong, right now it seems you have not any.

manifold looks great to me, pretty much all the manifolds i build are designed so they fit ahead of being designed so they perform. packaging can be a big limiting factor in a lot of setups.

as for the exhaust, damn that looks like a lot of work... i know 4" bends aren't easy to come by, but i'd invest a little more time in looking for them, rather than making them... pretty labor intensive. it does look good, i'd just be less concerned with a lot fewer welds with some proper bends.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by weiRtech &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">"ummmm, you started it with just a suggestion and nothing to back it up? why not provide some more insight other than:"</TD></TR></TABLE>

Cause I'm not here to teach. I didn't bash his work I simply made a suggestion on how to improve what he has already done.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by weiRtech &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">until you provide some pertinent knowledge to go with the running mouth, you come off as looking like the moron... sorry. any keyboard chimp can make a claim that it can be improved, protected by the anonymity of his computer, but only someone with brains can explain how... although i may be wrong, right now it seems you have not any.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You are wrong. I'm not going to sit here for hours typing up design techniques, theories, proven designs with charts, solid work and autocad diagrams showing differences of this design vs that and what's better for which application. If he and you can't research that stuff and learn on your own that's not my problem.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by weiRtech &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">manifold looks great to me, pretty much all the manifolds i build are designed so they fit ahead of being designed so they perform. packaging can be a big limiting factor in a lot of setups.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree however some things I think he should have done a different way are not limited by this as it has been done before with this setup.

And to be clear as it seems a couple of you have miss ASSumptions of what exactly I'm talking about is some ways he could have done the top mount setup a little different. NOT saying he should design a different manfiold. I'm well aware top mount turbo manifolds make power. Shearer has been putting them on DSM's since before full race was ever even a business on 4g63's that have made more power then any other 4cylinders out there.


Modified by ianatmmf at 7:21 AM 4/30/2008

 

i design manifolds based on fitment, construction and power, in that order.

there are a bunch of ways to do it and that particular way works. i always change things to get better results, so that particular design is not set in stone. in fact that particular manifold is really hard to bolt on. i'm going to be changing runner placement to see if i can get that to work a little better.

i'll let the dyno numbers be the judge.

only thing that i'm not going to change is the t4 flange placement, everything else is up in the air.

i'm in the midst of building 5 different 2jz manifolds, so we'll see what happens.

i wanted single wastegate to bring down the cost of the finished product. i would rather use a single wastegate over two. not to mention most problems with manifolds, cracking in particular, are with the wastegate runner usually.

i'm already contracted to build two manifolds with twin wastegates, so i'll post up picks when those are done.

i've seen the full-race design before and in no way used it for a template. they have theirs and i have mine. if anything i would avoid copying designs. it doesn't feel good to be the "knock off" company. there are only a couple ways to build these things so there will be some similarities.

the other little thing thats helping me is the fact that i went over and talked to matt scranton and got opinions about what to run and what not too. if you don't know who he is, hes the guy who ran 6's with a gt5533 on his 2jz race car. he's ran a bunch of different manifolds including full-race, hks and a couple others.

that obviously helps.

thanks for the compliments. hopefully i'll have some power numbers in the next month.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ianatmmf &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Cause I'm not here to teach. I didn't bash his work I simply made a suggestion on how to improve what he has already done.

If he and you can't research that stuff and learn on your own that's not my problem. </TD></TR></TABLE>

first, you did no such thing as suggest on HOW to make improvements... read your post again, you mention doing more research on manifold design, not providing input as to what should be improved and how... just some bs about doing some reading.

i believe you made it your problem by posting in this thread. you suggest improvement should be made, but don't offer explaination beyond that. weak sauce.

bottom line is, it comes down to experience and practice, not what you read on the interweb. designing a manifold using cad is not going to give you dyno numbers. perhaps you could show us a manifold that YOU built and explain why it is better. and imo, name dropping shows you can't back up your claims since you are relying on someone else's experience and not your own. you seem to keep repeating the fact that some things could have been done differently, but are not specific as to what. stop beating around the bush, please prove me wrong because i love to learn new things.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by manifoldmiketyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i've seen the full-race design before and in no way used it for a template. they have theirs and i have mine. if anything i would avoid copying designs. it doesn't feel good to be the "knock off" company. there are only a couple ways to build these things so there will be some similarities.

the other little thing thats helping me is the fact that i went over and talked to matt scranton and got opinions about what to run and what not too. if you don't know who he is, hes the guy who ran 6's with a gt5533 on his 2jz race car. he's ran a bunch of different manifolds including full-race, hks and a couple others.

that obviously helps.

thanks for the compliments. hopefully i'll have some power numbers in the next month.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I wasn't trying to say your were copying, it seems like theres pretty much the only runner configuration that seems to work well in that chassis from my experience. Just trying to make the point that the FR makes power and yours should too

To Bad Scranton only ran the undivided Full Race manifold. I could show you a sneak picture of a twinscroll design i made awhile back for that guy, its MASSIVE.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Vince64 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I wasn't trying to say your were copying, it seems like theres pretty much the only runner configuration that seems to work well in that chassis from my experience. Just trying to make the point that the FR makes power and yours should too

To Bad Scranton only ran the undivided Full Race manifold. I could show you a sneak picture of a twinscroll design i made awhile back for that guy, its MASSIVE. </TD></TR></TABLE>

i wasn't trying to be defensive, i just want to make sure that people know that i'm doing my own thing. full-race does some bad *** stuff, especailly their welding and fab.

i always like looking at pics

-manifoldmiketyson

 

Good job on the manifold. The other guys however must be right, they sound like legitimate bullshite engineers to me...?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by weiRtech &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
and imo, name dropping shows you can't back up your claims since you are relying on someone else's experience and not your own..</TD></TR></TABLE>

if this was directed at me too, i don't usually name drop, just trying to give a little insight on some of my building decisions. race proven designs are usually pretty good. its suprising what works and what doesn't.

top mount manifolds don't always work better. i'm putting a bottom mount on my personal car if i can fit the turbo where i want it.

top mounts = looks

 

mike, it wasn't directed at you. i talk to as many people as i can to get opinions on stuff when i am unsure, or need a different/better perspective. and yes, i research too. you have proven time and time again here that you have a great deal of talent when building manifolds. i've seen a lot of your work and have always been impressed and appreciate seeing it. i'm just trying to prove a point with what's his face know it all who feels comfortable making bullshit claims with nothing to back it up with.

 

mike for el presidente

el tigre

 

i never claimed to be all knowing. you're the one that started spitting comments with an arrogant undertone. seriously man, you sound like a real ******** and i think we can all recognize your passive aggressive method of asserting a superior understanding that you have yet to otherwise validate

remember the axe deodorant game killer commercials?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=4WmAJZqO_dI

that's you. if i had to guess i'd say you are a kid, have a small *****, or are a kid with a small *****. but dont worry, a baby dick isnt the end of the world. after all you can still make baseless claims on internet boards to feel better about yourself.

back to the topic at hand, my understanding of manifold design is somewhat limited in that i have only a basic understanding of the exhaust gas flow in that i understand it from a bernoulli fluid flow point of view but am not intimately familiar with the concept of the exhaust gas pulsing. i think that understanding is what separates a pretty knowledgeable person from the turbo gods like Tony1 and a few others.

i have read this forum for the past five years and have read the book maximum boost a couple of times. i'd say i good enough understanding to know that his manifold is peachy as is.

i hope you have a lot of time on your hands because if that manifold doesnt meet the dizzying heights of your standard for street car turbo manifolds, then you will be spending a lot of time "correcting" about 99% of the turbo manifolds in this or any other forum.

any component has to be the result of compromises. this is a good end result considering all of the compromises that had to be made. is it the perfect manifold? probably not, but it will do the job just fine.

now, as others have mentioned, I would love to hear your awesome suggestions as to how he could improve it and still achieve the same set of compromises. if you can name one suggestion that meet the criteria he was going for and would likely result in even 15% more power I will apologize to you and retract my statements.

we both know you can't. there simply isnt anything significantly wrong with the damn thing. we all know that you were just stroking you own ego trying to sound like a big shot by offering criticism.

again, just name one little thing that could be fixed that still works with the same set of compromises that need to be made (i.e. budget, fitment, power goals, etc etc.) that would result in significant power gains.

also, the whole "well i shouldn't have to explain it" defense is [freak]ing pathetic. that is the typical surrender ballad of the clueless.

here i'll show you how it should work:

i say your arrogant comments make you sound like a dick head. see above. then i show you some examples of how your dickheadedness compares to the dickheadedness of another such ********. see above.

now if you were to ask me "well shucks Mr. E.G., why, I sure don't want to sound like a ********, what ever can I do?" you can bet that i wouldnt just say "well, im not going to waste me time. you should know. by the way I can name drop **** to sound official... antidisestablishmentarianism... chlorophyll... flux capacitor... laryngitis."

no, im pretty sure if i take the time to make a claim i'll happily invest some additional time to explain what i meant. i never claimed to know it all. just that i know enough to recognize that there was a fountain of bullshit spewing from your mouth. am i trying to start ****? probably so. i like ruffling the feathers of know it all douche bags. it's kind of a hobby.

i just have this weird thing where i dont care if i offend people who are ********. it's odd. it's almost like im compelled to be respectful and nice to people who actually deserve respect but for some reason that i just cant seem to put my finger on, the idea of treating ******** with respect just doesnt appeal to me. go figure.



p.s. welcome to the forum. you'd probably get more accomplished if you 86ed the attitude or at the very least actually offered us a glimpse into your wealth of knowledge. if you cant, maybe you should use your autocad skills to design a ***** that meets your exacting specifications and go fvck yourself. last thing we need is another "i can do it better" troll.

 

nice work man

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by weiRtech &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">mike, it wasn't directed at you. i talk to as many people as i can to get opinions on stuff when i am unsure, or need a different/better perspective. and yes, i research too. you have proven time and time again here that you have a great deal of talent when building manifolds. i've seen a lot of your work and have always been impressed and appreciate seeing it. i'm just trying to prove a point with what's his face know it all who feels comfortable making bullshit claims with nothing to back it up with.</TD></TR></TABLE>

thanks. i read back later and saw what you were talking about. still, i don't really care for name droppers and i did it in this thread too.

all good though. thanks for adding a little experience to the mix

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tigre Tuning &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">mike for el presidente

el tigre</TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah..... when are you going to start posting some shizzle up. your just as good if not better then me.


by the way. this is the third 4" aluminum exhaust that i've built for supras. the two prior are on daily driven supras which have had no problems.

i'm got the pie cut mfg process down. takes me about 20 min. to cut all the pies within .010 on each cut. aluminum doesn't take long at all to weld, so usually an exhaust like this takes at least 2~3 hours less then stainless.

i also don't use bends because you can't bend .120 wall 4" 6061 less then 9 inch radius, which is what is available. the pies i cut are in 10 degree increments and are setup for a 6 inch radius.

hope that makes sense.

for the skeptics, a lot of my stuff is drawn in cad before i make a cut.

Modified by manifoldmiketyson at 5:12 AM 5/1/2008


Modified by manifoldmiketyson at 5:13 AM 5/1/2008

 

Geez so much hate in one thread

 

you really need to work on cleaning up your beeds. try to weld straight and make it look like you never stoped around the whole thing. also the height of the welds change around the pipe. try to keep that consistent.

oh and never again do pie cuts.... j/k i hate doing them and i would have just used bends.

 

I know very little about tubular turbo manifolds, so I won't claim to.

As for the aliminum exhaust, I think it looks fantastic. I can't imagine the patients required to do the "jdm" bends like that, but props on doing it like a pro.

 

Heres that mani i was talking about, sorry for the threadjack






Modified by Vince64 at 2:17 AM 5/2/2008