kinda dumb but i recently installed a 23mm rear sway bar and my car has some pretty bad oversteer when i rip around a corner a little too fast. My car has a stock 21 mm sway bar front sway. Would upgrading to a 25mm front give me significant performance results or a waste of money?

car: 1995 honda del sol si (eg)
use: just driving around the town, hopefully seeing some track in the next few months.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by obuhmyuh &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">kinda dumb but i recently installed a 23mm rear sway bar and my car has some pretty bad oversteer when i rip around a corner a little too fast. My car has a stock 21 mm sway bar front sway. Would upgrading to a 25mm front give me significant performance results or a waste of money?

car: 1995 honda del sol si (eg)
use: just driving around the town, hopefully seeing some track in the next few months.</TD></TR></TABLE>

what suspension setup are you running? Tires? could be driver error...

 

very well could be, i didnt say i didnt drive like a jackass on onramps and what-not, mind you. im running tokico illumina shocks with h&r stage2 springs, front&rear strut towers. 23mm '98 spec itr rear sway, blox lca's and endlinks, with an asr rear subframe brace.

i think i have a pretty decent setup and i doubt its driver error. but when i do end up tracking my car i dont want the back end to kick out so much i just want it to grip, so thats why i was wondering if upgrading to a bigger front sway would be beneficial.

btw im running 195/60/14 yokohama tires. not the best rim/tire setup but its what i got for now before i upgrade to a wider/taller rim/tire profile.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by obuhmyuh &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">very well could be, i didnt say i didnt drive like a jackass on onramps and what-not, mind you. im running tokico illumina shocks with h&r stage2 springs, front&rear strut towers. 23mm '98 spec itr rear sway, blox lca's and endlinks, with an asr rear subframe brace.

i think i have a pretty decent setup and i doubt its driver error. but when i do end up tracking my car i dont want the back end to kick out so much i just want it to grip, so thats why i was wondering if upgrading to a bigger front sway would be beneficial.

btw im running 195/60/14 yokohama tires. not the best rim/tire setup but its what i got for now before i upgrade to a wider/taller rim/tire profile. </TD></TR></TABLE>

i would upgrade to sk2 (integra) coilovers...10k/8k...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by obuhmyuh &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...my car has some pretty bad oversteer when i rip around a corner a little too fast.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Are you braking or lifting off the gas while you turn?

 

off throttle induced oversteer

 

iif i let off the gas i never go past half throttle, if i feel it break loose a little i try to power through it (not easy to do with a modest d15b).

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bmoua &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

i would upgrade to sk2 (integra) coilovers...10k/8k...</TD></TR></TABLE>

what's the 10k/8k about?

thanks for input so far, im fairly happy with my setup so far. new coilovers are in the FAR future.

im wondering if a $100 sway bar will get me good results, if not ill save it. im not really budgeted to buy 1000+ coilover package, when i should be saving up for my boost project.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by obuhmyuh &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">iif i let off the gas i never go past half throttle, if i feel it break loose a little i try to power through it (not easy to do with a modest d15b).

what's the 10k/8k about?

thanks for input so far, im fairly happy with my setup so far. new coilovers are in the FAR future.

im wondering if a $100 sway bar will get me good results, if not ill save it. im not really budgeted to buy 1000+ coilover package, when i should be saving up for my boost project. </TD></TR></TABLE>

running higher spring rates will help you far more than any sway bar setup. If your serious about auto-x/tracking you should do more research on suspension before you spend any more $$$.

 

thanks i appreciate the suggestions

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bmoua &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

running higher spring rates will help you far more than any sway bar setup.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

I would remove the RSB then, sounds like it wasn't needed.

What handling aspects were you trying to modify that you thought necessitated a rear bar?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by abawp &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would remove the RSB then, sounds like it wasn't needed.

What handling aspects were you trying to modify that you thought necessitated a rear bar?</TD></TR></TABLE>

not sure exactly what your trying to say but i had a fsb and i installed a rsb, my car no doubt handles better with a rsb, i was just wondering if upgrading my front would be better or worse.

 

From your original post, it sounds like you added a RSB to your setup, which is this:

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by obuhmyuh &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">im running tokico illumina shocks with h&r stage2 springs, front&rear strut towers. 23mm '98 spec itr rear sway, blox lca's and endlinks, with an asr rear subframe brace.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Doesn't look like you upgraded the FSB, so you now have a stiffer rear in relation to the front. Your "better" handling can easily be attributed to the decrease in roll you are experiencing with the bigger rear bar.

Let me try to ask my question a little better. How was your handling "worse" without the upgraded rear bar? What made you think a rear bar would make your car better in the handling department?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by abawp &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">From your original post, it sounds like you added a RSB to your setup, which is this:

Doesn't look like you upgraded the FSB, so you now have a stiffer rear in relation to the front. Your "better" handling can easily be attributed to the decrease in roll you are experiencing with the bigger rear bar.

Let me try to ask my question a little better. How was your handling "worse" without the upgraded rear bar? What made you think a rear bar would make your car better in the handling department?</TD></TR></TABLE>

the less body roll you have the better. the back end of my chassis has less flex resulting in better handling/response. im thinking if i have a bigger front than my back it will only make things better.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by obuhmyuh &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the less body roll you have the better. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Maybe in a tight auto-x course, this might hold true. Keep in mind that with body roll, you get camber gains, which increases grip. As a suspension gets modified, you have to create a compromise between roll (camber gains) and the available grip level of the tires. Obviously having tons of roll with extremely sticky slick tires has the potential to actually roll a car onto its side, the opposite end of the spectrum where your car loses grip because the car is too tightly sprung holds true as well. The less available grip you have between the tires and the road, the <u>more</u> roll you will want.

Your overly tightened rear is keeping your car from rolling, which in this instance, is a bad thing. Your losing grip sooner than the front, and this is part of the problem. The rest is usually driving error, but I can't say with 100% certainty since I can't tell how you are driving over the internet. Remove the bar, it doesnt sound like it is needed in your situation.

 

thanks for all of your input, i appreciate it and will keep a lot of what you said in mind. as far as my car being really "tightly sprung" this is just not the case, my suspension actually isnt that stiff with the exception of the back now. my tires have a lot of sidewall 195/60-14's so my tire has some roll to it which can compensate for the car not rolling much... and usually if i dont totally bank my car into an onramp at a high speed, my front tires are the first to break loose, and then the back follows, but the back never came out before i put on a sway bar. so i might be able to avoid the front breaking loose, which will in turn create the back from coming loose, which can be accomplished by getting a bigger front bar.

do you kinda see where I'm coming from?

once again, thank you very much, im not trying to argue, just trying to get a better understanding of what your trying to say as well as letting you know my train-of-thought.

 

Even if the springs aren't very stiff, you can still be "tightly sprung." The bracings that you have installed takes flex out of the chassis, and since that flex has to go somewhere, it follows the path of least resistance, which is most likely your tires. The other thing working against you is your sidewall. You could be experiencing a lot of sidewall roll, which is a bad thing (and something completely different than camber gains through body roll). What are your tires' air pressure?

 

i would have to double check, but i was actually thinking about checking that today but i ran out of time. they do squeal an awful lot when i know they shouldnt, like when making tight slow speed turns and under medium acceleration. i might wanna lower my psi if anything because they might be slightly over-inflated...

 

I actually have just done this today on my 95 civic ex coupe. Here is my setup, which is similar to yours:

Front and rear upper strut tower bars
Suspension Techniques 23mm rear sway bar with rear lower tie bar/ subframe reinforcement.
omnipower rear lca's
omnipower front lca's
skunk2 front upper control arms
kyb agx with ground control coilovers
nrg front lower h brace
Stock front swaybar
16x7 rota slips with kumho ecsta 205 45 16

Today, I added the following:
Blox rear trailing arm spherical bearing bushing
jdm integra type-r 25mm front sway bar

The oversteer problems from having a thicker sway bar on the back were ELIMINATED with the addition of this thicker bar. I would highly recommend adding it, as it makes the front end feel more solid. I don't have to turn the wheel very far to turn, steering is light and quick, the steering wheel turns now with very little effort. I am sure the spherical bearing has something to do with this, but the bigger bar seems to have made a world of difference.


Modified by bluebomber at 9:38 PM 4/29/2008

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bluebomber &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I actually have just done this today on my 95 civic ex coupe. Here is my setup, which is similar to yours:

Front and rear upper strut tower bars
Suspension Techniques 23mm rear sway bar with rear lower tie bar/ subframe reinforcement.
omnipower rear lca's
omnipower front lca's
skunk2 front upper control arms
kyb agx with ground control coilovers
nrg front lower h brace
Stock front swaybar
16x7 rota slips with kumho ecsta 205 45 16

Today, I added the following:
Blox rear trailing arm spherical bearing bushing
jdm integra type-r 25mm front sway bar

The oversteer problems from having a thicker sway bar on the back were ELIMINATED with the addition of this thicker bar. I would highly recommend adding it, as it makes the front end feel more solid. I don't have to turn the wheel very far to turn, steering is light and quick, the steering wheel turns now with very little effort. I am sure the spherical bearing has something to do with this, but the bigger bar seems to have made a world of difference.


Modified by bluebomber at 9:38 PM 4/29/2008</TD></TR></TABLE>


wow thank you so much i will def buy one... i wanna try to fine a 26mm


nice avatar by the way

 

how hard was it to swap out the front sway bar??

it looks like a mess under there...

 

lift the rear of the car and put it on jackstands. take off the linkages on the rear sway bar and see if you can freely rotate the swaybar. if not, then you need to shim the D shaped bushings so its not too tight. check if tis binding anywhere else.

when the last time you got an alignment?

 

alignment was done two days before i installed the swaybar, and my readings were fine. i think the problem is the front is too loose, because i can hear them screech and the back doesnt make any noise even when it slides out.

easiest way to drift FF. haha jk.

 

none of that makes sense.

take the swaybar off if youre having problems with it.

 

is your sway bar adjustable?