Please, HELP a fellow EFer
91 Civic Hatch DX 1.5L Egine
I just finished replacing a timing belt, drive belts, water pump and spark plugs with all OEM parts. I started the car but the engine won't turn. This is the first time I have ever done something like this beyond checking oil and coolant reservoir. Anywho, I am comfortable with everything I did except the timing belt. I had a hard time removing the crankshaft bolt and replacing the timing belt. I did turned the crankshaft CLOCKWISE and one time, the timing belt came off the crankshaft pulley (w/o me knowing) while turning COUNTERCLOCKWISE, but I kept turning the crankshaft hoping the camshaft would turn....maybe a couple of times or so. After putting the timing belt back on, I did turn it but with some resistance. But after that, I did set the TDC and marks according to the manual (1.5 engine lined up with the top of the engine block), turned the crankshaft COUNTERCLOCKWISE 3 teeth, loosened the adjusting bolt to tighten the timing belt, and tightening the adjusting bolt and torqued according to the manual. What did I do wrong and how can I get the engine to turn?
Should I go back and re-install the timing belt, being careful to follow exactly what the manuals says, plus the fact that this will be my 2nd time to do it? Or is there a quicker way to fix this? Thanks in advance.
I just finished replacing a timing belt, drive belts, water pump and spark plugs with all OEM parts. I started the car but the engine won't turn. This is the first time I have ever done something like this beyond checking oil and coolant reservoir. Anywho, I am comfortable with everything I did except the timing belt. I had a hard time removing the crankshaft bolt and replacing the timing belt. I did turned the crankshaft CLOCKWISE and one time, the timing belt came off the crankshaft pulley (w/o me knowing) while turning COUNTERCLOCKWISE, but I kept turning the crankshaft hoping the camshaft would turn....maybe a couple of times or so. After putting the timing belt back on, I did turn it but with some resistance. But after that, I did set the TDC and marks according to the manual (1.5 engine lined up with the top of the engine block), turned the crankshaft COUNTERCLOCKWISE 3 teeth, loosened the adjusting bolt to tighten the timing belt, and tightening the adjusting bolt and torqued according to the manual. What did I do wrong and how can I get the engine to turn?
Should I go back and re-install the timing belt, being careful to follow exactly what the manuals says, plus the fact that this will be my 2nd time to do it? Or is there a quicker way to fix this? Thanks in advance.
i believe thats the first time i've ever heard of this happening! well the only thing i could reccomend before redoing the timing belt would be just to check over where your cam gear mark is at in coordinance to the mark on your timing gear on the crankshaft and make sure they're alinged properly and not opposite or something...... not sure if it'll help any but good luck to ya
here is the deal.. my guess is that you messed up the alignment of the head with respect to the crank.I didn't follow any of the clockwise/counterclockwise stuff you did, but the fact that you moved it at all is the problem. You should line it up at the start, and not move it until the belt is back on. There is some room for play, but its like 1/32nd of a turn for either the cam or the crank. any further than that and it gets all kinds of messed up. The moral of the story is that you should never have to move the cam or the crank with the timing belt off, if you properly aligned it at the start.
What is probably happening is that the valves are interfering with the movement of the pistons, and it is causing the engine not to turn. You can fix it, but the belt has to come off. If you hit the starter and a piston tapped a valve or 2, you may now have some bent valves as well.
What is probably happening is that the valves are interfering with the movement of the pistons, and it is causing the engine not to turn. You can fix it, but the belt has to come off. If you hit the starter and a piston tapped a valve or 2, you may now have some bent valves as well.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sanimalp »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">here is the deal.. my guess is that you messed up the alignment of the head with respect to the crank.I didn't follow any of the clockwise/counterclockwise stuff you did, but the fact that you moved it at all is the problem. You should line it up at the start, and not move it until the belt is back on. There is some room for play, but its like 1/32nd of a turn for either the cam or the crank. any further than that and it gets all kinds of messed up. The moral of the story is that you should never have to move the cam or the crank with the timing belt off, if you properly aligned it at the start.
What is probably happening is that the valves are interfering with the movement of the pistons, and it is causing the engine not to turn. You can fix it, but the belt has to come off. If you hit the starter and a piston tapped a valve or 2, you may now have some bent valves as well. </TD></TR></TABLE>
How do I fix this once the belt is off as you say?
How would I know if I bent a valve?
Since I have the new timing belt installed, is this what I should do?
Set the TDC marks while the bolt is still tight by turning the crankshaft bolt counterclockwise. Do I have to remove the crankshaft bolt and pulley, remove the timing belt and then re-install? If yes, how do I keep the marks in line when I am taking off the crankshaft bolt to remove the crankshaft pulley?
What is probably happening is that the valves are interfering with the movement of the pistons, and it is causing the engine not to turn. You can fix it, but the belt has to come off. If you hit the starter and a piston tapped a valve or 2, you may now have some bent valves as well. </TD></TR></TABLE>
How do I fix this once the belt is off as you say?
How would I know if I bent a valve?
Since I have the new timing belt installed, is this what I should do?
Set the TDC marks while the bolt is still tight by turning the crankshaft bolt counterclockwise. Do I have to remove the crankshaft bolt and pulley, remove the timing belt and then re-install? If yes, how do I keep the marks in line when I am taking off the crankshaft bolt to remove the crankshaft pulley?
here is what i would do if i was in your situation.. I would try to get the crank as close to TDC as possible. Once I did that, i would proceed to check the valve position to make sure that it is logically in sync with the bottom end. This means when the bottom end cylinder 1 is at TDC, the #1 cylinder valves should all be completely closed, and the cam lobes should not be very close to the rocker arms. If this is the case, then you are ballpark close to where you need to be. if the cam lobes are extremely close to the rocker arms or attempting to push up the rocker arms, the head might be 180 degrees off from the bottom end, which is when the fun starts. you will have to rotate the top and bottom separately to attempt to get them back in sync, which means taking off the timing belt so you can rotate the top and bottom independently. I have only had to do this on a DOHC motor that had a bad timing belt install, but was never started.. so it may be lots of fun on a SOHC, depending on how far off the head and bottom end are.
in order to turn the crank, you dont have to tighten the bolt all the way. You should be able to screw it in hand tight, and then hit the wrench with a rubber mallet 1 time to basically hand tighten the bolt. you should be able to rotate the engine with just that much pressure. then to undo the bolt, just hit it with the mallet to break it, and then untighten.
a compression test is how you can tell if you bent a valve, but you have to be able to rotate the engine to do a compression test. once you get the engine properly synced, then you can perform the test and cross your fingers.
in order to turn the crank, you dont have to tighten the bolt all the way. You should be able to screw it in hand tight, and then hit the wrench with a rubber mallet 1 time to basically hand tighten the bolt. you should be able to rotate the engine with just that much pressure. then to undo the bolt, just hit it with the mallet to break it, and then untighten.
a compression test is how you can tell if you bent a valve, but you have to be able to rotate the engine to do a compression test. once you get the engine properly synced, then you can perform the test and cross your fingers.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sanimalp »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">here is what i would do if i was in your situation.. I would try to get the crank as close to TDC as possible. Once I did that, i would proceed to check the valve position to make sure that it is logically in sync with the bottom end. This means when the bottom end cylinder 1 is at TDC, the #1 cylinder valves should all be completely closed, and the cam lobes should not be very close to the rocker arms. If this is the case, then you are ballpark close to where you need to be. if the cam lobes are extremely close to the rocker arms or attempting to push up the rocker arms, the head might be 180 degrees off from the bottom end, which is when the fun starts. you will have to rotate the top and bottom separately to attempt to get them back in sync, which means taking off the timing belt so you can rotate the top and bottom independently. I have only had to do this on a DOHC motor that had a bad timing belt install, but was never started.. so it may be lots of fun on a SOHC, depending on how far off the head and bottom end are.
in order to turn the crank, you dont have to tighten the bolt all the way. You should be able to screw it in hand tight, and then hit the wrench with a rubber mallet 1 time to basically hand tighten the bolt. you should be able to rotate the engine with just that much pressure. then to undo the bolt, just hit it with the mallet to break it, and then untighten.
a compression test is how you can tell if you bent a valve, but you have to be able to rotate the engine to do a compression test. once you get the engine properly synced, then you can perform the test and cross your fingers. </TD></TR></TABLE>
First of all, thank you very much for the 411. Without reading your post, I just finished setting both the camshaft and the crank to TDC, independently just as you described above. The only difference is, when I set the crank to TDC, I torqued the bolt to 119 lbs per manual, which leads me to the next question I was going to post...
How do I loosen the crankshaft bolt now and still keep the mark inline with the TDC? I see now that you only hand-tighten it plus one hit from a malet and do the same to remove it. With that in mind, I guess I have to loosen the crankshaft bolt again, hand tighten it, plus a malet hit, rotate counterclockwise to set the crank to TDC, loosen the bolt - first with a hit from a malet and then, with my hand. Right? Will the hit from the malet move the mark out of syc with the TDC?
in order to turn the crank, you dont have to tighten the bolt all the way. You should be able to screw it in hand tight, and then hit the wrench with a rubber mallet 1 time to basically hand tighten the bolt. you should be able to rotate the engine with just that much pressure. then to undo the bolt, just hit it with the mallet to break it, and then untighten.
a compression test is how you can tell if you bent a valve, but you have to be able to rotate the engine to do a compression test. once you get the engine properly synced, then you can perform the test and cross your fingers. </TD></TR></TABLE>
First of all, thank you very much for the 411. Without reading your post, I just finished setting both the camshaft and the crank to TDC, independently just as you described above. The only difference is, when I set the crank to TDC, I torqued the bolt to 119 lbs per manual, which leads me to the next question I was going to post...
How do I loosen the crankshaft bolt now and still keep the mark inline with the TDC? I see now that you only hand-tighten it plus one hit from a malet and do the same to remove it. With that in mind, I guess I have to loosen the crankshaft bolt again, hand tighten it, plus a malet hit, rotate counterclockwise to set the crank to TDC, loosen the bolt - first with a hit from a malet and then, with my hand. Right? Will the hit from the malet move the mark out of syc with the TDC?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by braass91 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
How do I loosen the crankshaft bolt now and still keep the mark inline with the TDC? I see now that you only hand-tighten it plus one hit from a malet and do the same to remove it. With that in mind, I guess I have to loosen the crankshaft bolt again, hand tighten it, plus a malet hit, rotate counterclockwise to set the crank to TDC, loosen the bolt - first with a hit from a malet and then, with my hand. Right? Will the hit from the malet move the mark out of syc with the TDC?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
It sounds to me like you've got it. the hit from the mallet may move it, but if you have a buddy to help you out, he can jam up the flywheel through the access panel so it doesn't move too much, or you can get the Honda crank pulley removal tool and wedge it so it doesn't move if you are by yourself. The third option is to just tap it, and then correct it before you remove the belt. This technique for lightly tightening the crank pulley bolt also works to verify that the belt is installed correctly, because if you are paranoid, you can pull the spark plugs and rotate the engine freely with a socket wrench if the car is out of gear. It is a good way to check your work non destructively. If you can't turn the engine by hand, something is wrong.
How do I loosen the crankshaft bolt now and still keep the mark inline with the TDC? I see now that you only hand-tighten it plus one hit from a malet and do the same to remove it. With that in mind, I guess I have to loosen the crankshaft bolt again, hand tighten it, plus a malet hit, rotate counterclockwise to set the crank to TDC, loosen the bolt - first with a hit from a malet and then, with my hand. Right? Will the hit from the malet move the mark out of syc with the TDC?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
It sounds to me like you've got it. the hit from the mallet may move it, but if you have a buddy to help you out, he can jam up the flywheel through the access panel so it doesn't move too much, or you can get the Honda crank pulley removal tool and wedge it so it doesn't move if you are by yourself. The third option is to just tap it, and then correct it before you remove the belt. This technique for lightly tightening the crank pulley bolt also works to verify that the belt is installed correctly, because if you are paranoid, you can pull the spark plugs and rotate the engine freely with a socket wrench if the car is out of gear. It is a good way to check your work non destructively. If you can't turn the engine by hand, something is wrong.
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<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sanimalp »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
It sounds to me like you've got it. the hit from the mallet may move it, but if you have a buddy to help you out, he can jam up the flywheel through the access panel so it doesn't move too much, or you can get the Honda crank pulley removal tool and wedge it so it doesn't move if you are by yourself. The third option is to just tap it, and then correct it before you remove the belt. This technique for lightly tightening the crank pulley bolt also works to verify that the belt is installed correctly, because if you are paranoid, you can pull the spark plugs and rotate the engine freely with a socket wrench if the car is out of gear. It is a good way to check your work non destructively. If you can't turn the engine by hand, something is wrong. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Again, thank you. Here's where I am at right now...
I have lined up both cam and crank, independently, and the timing belt is off. I will go ahead and remove the new spark plugs I have just installed, put the car out of gear, just to be safe. Then, I have to loosen the crank bolt 'cause I torqued it to 119lbs per manual, and hand tighten it enough to rotate the crank to TDC. Remove the crank bolt and pulley, being careful not to move the mark off the TDC, install the timing belt, torque it per manual and adjust the timing belt, etc. Am I on the right path?
btw, love your family of honda cars. I have a tahitian green 91 hatch DX with with some SI parts.
It sounds to me like you've got it. the hit from the mallet may move it, but if you have a buddy to help you out, he can jam up the flywheel through the access panel so it doesn't move too much, or you can get the Honda crank pulley removal tool and wedge it so it doesn't move if you are by yourself. The third option is to just tap it, and then correct it before you remove the belt. This technique for lightly tightening the crank pulley bolt also works to verify that the belt is installed correctly, because if you are paranoid, you can pull the spark plugs and rotate the engine freely with a socket wrench if the car is out of gear. It is a good way to check your work non destructively. If you can't turn the engine by hand, something is wrong. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Again, thank you. Here's where I am at right now...
I have lined up both cam and crank, independently, and the timing belt is off. I will go ahead and remove the new spark plugs I have just installed, put the car out of gear, just to be safe. Then, I have to loosen the crank bolt 'cause I torqued it to 119lbs per manual, and hand tighten it enough to rotate the crank to TDC. Remove the crank bolt and pulley, being careful not to move the mark off the TDC, install the timing belt, torque it per manual and adjust the timing belt, etc. Am I on the right path?
btw, love your family of honda cars. I have a tahitian green 91 hatch DX with with some SI parts.
yeah that sounds right. if its all back together, just see if it rotates so that you know its all atleast lined up correctly. After that, do a compression test to make sure nothing is wrong with the head, and you should be good.
That crx in the picture just got an LS swap not too long ago. the one closest is my daily beater/sleeper that has a 4.9 final drive, and the middle is now my fiance's daily. I dont mind the tahitian green, it just kinda happened that way, but people think its hilarious that me and my now fiance have the "same car"..
That crx in the picture just got an LS swap not too long ago. the one closest is my daily beater/sleeper that has a 4.9 final drive, and the middle is now my fiance's daily. I dont mind the tahitian green, it just kinda happened that way, but people think its hilarious that me and my now fiance have the "same car"..
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sanimalp »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yeah that sounds right. if its all back together, just see if it rotates so that you know its all atleast lined up correctly. After that, do a compression test to make sure nothing is wrong with the head, and you should be good.
That crx in the picture just got an LS swap not too long ago. the one closest is my daily beater/sleeper that has a 4.9 final drive, and the middle is now my fiance's daily. I dont mind the tahitian green, it just kinda happened that way, but people think its hilarious that me and my now fiance have the "same car".. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Sorry but just a few more questions....
So once the belt is back on, rotate it to see if what lines up correctly?
How to do a compression test?
What you mean "4.9 final drive?"
Btw, I am the original owner of my 91 civic hatch. I remember when I bought it back in Nov 91 that I wasn't sure to go with the Civic or a Toyota Tercel. I am so glad I bought the Civic. Thanks again, sanimalp for all your help. I'll post an update once I am done, hopefully by this weekend.
That crx in the picture just got an LS swap not too long ago. the one closest is my daily beater/sleeper that has a 4.9 final drive, and the middle is now my fiance's daily. I dont mind the tahitian green, it just kinda happened that way, but people think its hilarious that me and my now fiance have the "same car".. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Sorry but just a few more questions....
So once the belt is back on, rotate it to see if what lines up correctly?
How to do a compression test?
What you mean "4.9 final drive?"
Btw, I am the original owner of my 91 civic hatch. I remember when I bought it back in Nov 91 that I wasn't sure to go with the Civic or a Toyota Tercel. I am so glad I bought the Civic. Thanks again, sanimalp for all your help. I'll post an update once I am done, hopefully by this weekend.
You can rotate the engine by hand a couple of revolutions and it should rotate without binding. After the couple rotations, you should be able to put the crank at TDC again, and the cam gear should be dead on TDC too. if it isn't, there might be a belt tensioner issue, or the belt might not have gone on with everything lined up just right.
A compression test, you will need a compression test kit, which you can get from harbor freight, sears, snap-on, etc. As long as your engine can turn freely and your starter works, you should be able to screw the pressure gauge into a spark plug hole in place of the spark plug, and use the starter to turn over the engine to see where the gauge peaks. You may have a second person help you with that part. You do that for each cylinder and record where the gauge peaks. Your cylinders should all be within 1% of each other in order for the test to be declared good. If any of the cylinders are vastly different then the others, then most likely you have a bent valve or valves in that cylinder, which means you should either get a rebuild or buy a different head.
A 4.9 final drive is a gear in the transmission that acts on all the gears as a torque multiplier. increasing the ratio of the final drive provides much higher acceleration at the cost of top speed. Conversely, a lower final drive allows your cruising RPM to be lower, but your acceleration sucks. The dx and std trans are 3.88 ratio, and the SI is a 4.25 ratio. I upgraded to the 4.9 ratio which is great fun. It is analogous to the rear end ratio upgrades they used to do in the old muscle cars, for exactly the same reason.
Original owner is extremely impressive. I would love to see pics if you've got them.The lowest I can claim is 4th owner. heh.. On my daily beater, i think i am 15th owner or something rediculous like that. Carfax shows it was salvaged 3 different times, and the suspension geometry reinforces that statement..
A compression test, you will need a compression test kit, which you can get from harbor freight, sears, snap-on, etc. As long as your engine can turn freely and your starter works, you should be able to screw the pressure gauge into a spark plug hole in place of the spark plug, and use the starter to turn over the engine to see where the gauge peaks. You may have a second person help you with that part. You do that for each cylinder and record where the gauge peaks. Your cylinders should all be within 1% of each other in order for the test to be declared good. If any of the cylinders are vastly different then the others, then most likely you have a bent valve or valves in that cylinder, which means you should either get a rebuild or buy a different head.
A 4.9 final drive is a gear in the transmission that acts on all the gears as a torque multiplier. increasing the ratio of the final drive provides much higher acceleration at the cost of top speed. Conversely, a lower final drive allows your cruising RPM to be lower, but your acceleration sucks. The dx and std trans are 3.88 ratio, and the SI is a 4.25 ratio. I upgraded to the 4.9 ratio which is great fun. It is analogous to the rear end ratio upgrades they used to do in the old muscle cars, for exactly the same reason.
Original owner is extremely impressive. I would love to see pics if you've got them.The lowest I can claim is 4th owner. heh.. On my daily beater, i think i am 15th owner or something rediculous like that. Carfax shows it was salvaged 3 different times, and the suspension geometry reinforces that statement..
line the {up} sign on the cam gear with the cam shaft,
turn the bottom pully till the notch lines up with both the up sign and cam
slap the timing belt on
turn the key
listen to her purrr
simple, yet.... time consooming
turn the bottom pully till the notch lines up with both the up sign and cam
slap the timing belt on
turn the key
listen to her purrr
simple, yet.... time consooming
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sanimalp »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You can rotate the engine by hand a couple of revolutions and it should rotate without binding. After the couple rotations, you should be able to put the crank at TDC again, and the cam gear should be dead on TDC too. if it isn't, there might be a belt tensioner issue, or the belt might not have gone on with everything lined up just right.
A compression test, you will need a compression test kit, which you can get from harbor freight, sears, snap-on, etc. As long as your engine can turn freely and your starter works, you should be able to screw the pressure gauge into a spark plug hole in place of the spark plug, and use the starter to turn over the engine to see where the gauge peaks. You may have a second person help you with that part. You do that for each cylinder and record where the gauge peaks. Your cylinders should all be within 1% of each other in order for the test to be declared good. If any of the cylinders are vastly different then the others, then most likely you have a bent valve or valves in that cylinder, which means you should either get a rebuild or buy a different head.
A 4.9 final drive is a gear in the transmission that acts on all the gears as a torque multiplier. increasing the ratio of the final drive provides much higher acceleration at the cost of top speed. Conversely, a lower final drive allows your cruising RPM to be lower, but your acceleration sucks. The dx and std trans are 3.88 ratio, and the SI is a 4.25 ratio. I upgraded to the 4.9 ratio which is great fun. It is analogous to the rear end ratio upgrades they used to do in the old muscle cars, for exactly the same reason.
Original owner is extremely impressive. I would love to see pics if you've got them.The lowest I can claim is 4th owner. heh.. On my daily beater, i think i am 15th owner or something rediculous like that. Carfax shows it was salvaged 3 different times, and the suspension geometry reinforces that statement..
</TD></TR></TABLE>
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[/IMG]
[IMG]
[/IMG]
With a few jdm & SI parts:
Now with SI seats - front and back, SI whitefaced cluster, JDM center console, SI rear speaker pods, SI clock, SI front bumper lip, aftermarket front grille insert, replaced that funky aftermarket handbrake handle with the OEM one. 17" motegi, lowered on Eibach sportsline springs.
Is it hard to change gears to 4.9? Sounds like something I'd like to do as this is my daily driver. I'll probably have time today or the weekend to finish the timing belt, hopefully with no bent valves. Thanks again.
A compression test, you will need a compression test kit, which you can get from harbor freight, sears, snap-on, etc. As long as your engine can turn freely and your starter works, you should be able to screw the pressure gauge into a spark plug hole in place of the spark plug, and use the starter to turn over the engine to see where the gauge peaks. You may have a second person help you with that part. You do that for each cylinder and record where the gauge peaks. Your cylinders should all be within 1% of each other in order for the test to be declared good. If any of the cylinders are vastly different then the others, then most likely you have a bent valve or valves in that cylinder, which means you should either get a rebuild or buy a different head.
A 4.9 final drive is a gear in the transmission that acts on all the gears as a torque multiplier. increasing the ratio of the final drive provides much higher acceleration at the cost of top speed. Conversely, a lower final drive allows your cruising RPM to be lower, but your acceleration sucks. The dx and std trans are 3.88 ratio, and the SI is a 4.25 ratio. I upgraded to the 4.9 ratio which is great fun. It is analogous to the rear end ratio upgrades they used to do in the old muscle cars, for exactly the same reason.
Original owner is extremely impressive. I would love to see pics if you've got them.The lowest I can claim is 4th owner. heh.. On my daily beater, i think i am 15th owner or something rediculous like that. Carfax shows it was salvaged 3 different times, and the suspension geometry reinforces that statement..
</TD></TR></TABLE>[IMG]
[/IMG][IMG]
[/IMG]With a few jdm & SI parts:
Now with SI seats - front and back, SI whitefaced cluster, JDM center console, SI rear speaker pods, SI clock, SI front bumper lip, aftermarket front grille insert, replaced that funky aftermarket handbrake handle with the OEM one. 17" motegi, lowered on Eibach sportsline springs.
Is it hard to change gears to 4.9? Sounds like something I'd like to do as this is my daily driver. I'll probably have time today or the weekend to finish the timing belt, hopefully with no bent valves. Thanks again.
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