Okay, I hope I get all the information out right on the major suspension components
92 honda civic HB
FR traction bars
PIC drag suspension (been on my car and has never given me any issues at all)
24.5x8x15 slicks
liberty trans with spool
dss 5.9 axles
upper skunk2 camber kit (ball joints, etc etc feels all tight)

I've had my car setup for a while now, and it makes 808 @ the wheels. Using the hondata boost by gear and it is working GREAT.

Anywho, my problem is. We've gained 15-20 mph over our old setup. 130 mph to 150 mph traps. I've upgraded to a liberty transmission with the spool in it. The problem I am having is, in 3rd and 4th gear, the car is starting to "Dance" and the rear gets wobbly.

1/4 slip :
60 1.605
330 6.657
1/8 6.657
1/8 mph 112.48
1000 8.499
1/4 10.021
mph 144.57

I checked my data log and I let off 9.5 seconds into the run. I was looking at the finish beams knowing I missed my 9 second pass.

Anyways, my problem is, the 2 times I've gone to the track with the new setup, it gets loose in 3rd and 4th, then when I hit the brakes up top, the car will violently dart left or dart right (as it did again tonight) Both times making me feel REALLY uneasy as I've almost smacked the wall @ 140+ mph (I think I saw tony on pinks with a similiar experience ????)

So, my question is, has anyone who has used a spool experienced this?

A couple fellow drag racers have suggested:
1) check the slicks to make sure they are the same circumference
2) bead lock the slicks
3) take the spool out and go back to an LSD (with the LSD, the car never danced around before, but we are also making 200-300 more whp with this new setup)
4) changing out the rear shocks ??? It has 1,000 drag shocks on it right now did great on the old setup, never had any issues
5) tire pressure??? I'm sure the slicks were within 1 pound of each other. I didn't have a super accurate gauge.

The alignment is good. a little toe out in the front, .1 negative camber 1.7 degrees of caster both sides, Rear alignment is good. I've checked and rechecked the alignement on our hunter infra red aligner multiple times.

Nothing in the front suspension feels loose, but the last time at the track when it darted right, the pulled to the right on the return road, now when it darted to the left, it pulls to the left on the return road.

Anyone with any advice I am all ears. Or guys like Joe (turbocharged) and Tony, are you guys running a spool or an LSD? Am I just doing something wrong? Honestly the car is getting nutty in 3rd and 4th already. So I don't think I'm letting off wrong or something like that.....???

PLEASE HELP or shed some information.
-Chuong

 

I had the exact same problem when I switched over to a spool (stock gsr trans with richmond spool). Car did some realllly weird stuff once I got the spool in and get veryyy verry squirly in the higher gears on high boost. I switched over to a quaife lsd and problem solved.

 

I got a print shot of my data log



You can see 3rd and 4th, she is breaking loose as there are spikes in the RPM.

I am just wondering because I know the car that tony1 was racing on pinks, I remember them saying that he hit the wall with it also. If I remember right, they welded the diff with it. I am honestly thinking that I will be switching back to my LSD.

Ben, did you experience any difference in 60 footing with it? I'm sure a spool will definantly give better traction, but I will sacrifice that for stability any day.
-Chuong

 

Trust me, I thought about the whole pro cars running spools, but my "Guess" was that they are also running a much larger slick. 28s instead of a 24.5 so they get a lot more traction.

I think that it's right on the verge of traction/no traction and with the spool, just that difference in traction is causing the rear to dance, and then when I slow down and it droops, the rear just wants to shoot out in whichever direction it's pointing since the rear end is just going left and right ???

Just a guess. I am still going to screw/bead lock the wheels/slicks tomorrow but I will also be removing the spool and installing the LSD back in. I really want to go to IFO in Oklahoma.

 

I put down 808 whp on our dyno.. I honestly think that she is breaking loose in 3rd and 4th. The slicks are pretty much brand new and the 60 foots (to me) show that they are still in good condition, because the car is 60 footing better than it EVER has, even with lower hp setups. EDIT: I had 8 pounds of air in the slicks. The track offcials always look at the tires and tell me they are flat @ 8 pounds. They'd go nuts if I had 4 to 5 pounds in them.

I really appreciate any help anyone is able to give me. Even any advice or exactly what ben posted makes me feel more assured in my decision to go back to the LSD over the spool is a good choice.

A couple friends tell me that the slick could be spinning on the wheel, so I will not rule it out. I'll measure the circumference of the slicks tomorrow and make sure they are the same roundness. Thanks again and I really hope to see if someone joe or tony can give some me some insight.

Also, this is my time from my last run which it darted to the right:
1.669 60 foot
4.569 330
6.845 1/8th
109.17 1/8 mph
10.255 1/4
149.20 mph

I know the setup is good for 9s, but this is making me scared to drive the car.

 

15" 15x7 heavy *** SRT 4 looking aftermarket wheels.

These are the wheels from last year on my 4 door.

Went to a hatch this year.

 

The Pinks car had a welded diff and went straight as an arrow. I hit the wall because the slick caught the fender and blew out at 130mph.

 

i ran a spool with no problem. make sure the roll out of the tires is the same, air pressure is exactly the same, and i would screw in the slicks

 

i dont think anyone mentioned this but its just a thought
front brakes? rear brakes? will def cause car to turn one direction or other if one caliper is hanging up
and at high speeds a little resistance is all it would take
sorry but it is just a thought

dan

 

I'm thinking the 1000lb springs and shock valving may not be helping with the higher loading of the suspension.

Talk with rota or call Progressauto.com and ask to speak Ed. Tell him your issues. Ryan has learned a lot from Ed.


As for the slicks spinning on the rims, I think you would notice a lose of air pressure. Have you noticed that ?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nasteboyii &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i dont think anyone mentioned this but its just a thought
front brakes? rear brakes? will def cause car to turn one direction or other if one caliper is hanging up
and at high speeds a little resistance is all it would take
sorry but it is just a thought

dan</TD></TR></TABLE>

I thought he said it's pulled to both sides.

 

Why dont you mark the slicks and rims to see if you are spinning them?

 

have you tried turning the boost down to get it where it is hooking up to see if it will go straight?


the top end of the track here yesterday wasnt prepped........the car went straight as an arrow early in the day before the track got hot. as the track got worse, so did the car. it was spinning bad in 3rd and fourth gear which was causing the car to wonder a little bit...i had a pass that i let off as well, but it was due to wheel spin. other cars testing were noticing the same thing.


bens car was 110% dangerous before he put the lsd back in the trans. however driving his car at 5mph the car would violently pull left or right....you couldnt even hold the steering wheel with 1 hand with out wrecking into people. with bens car we turned the power down pretty much all the way, and he was still drifting all the way down the track.

 

Well, I've only had 2 passes on this new setup, so I have yet to turn the boost down.

Any other recommendations on what to do?

I plan to bead lock the wheels
take the spool out
go to Oklahoma.

Also measure the slick circumference
put the car back on the alignment rack and then go through all the suspension bushings.
-Chuong

 

Sorry for the multiple replies.

Measured the circumference of the slicks. There is a difference of almost 2.25" between the left and right slick. I'm leaving the spool. and changing slicks/wheels.

 

Get a good tire pressure gauge while you're at it, "within 1psi" of each other is not good enough.

 

Yes sir, that is on my list also. I am getting the equilizer tire pressure gauge setup so it'll set the slicks up evenly left to right.

Thanks for all the advice guys. Fresh set of slicks and the typical maintainence it is for me.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Get a good tire pressure gauge while you're at it, "within 1psi" of each other is not good enough. </TD></TR></TABLE>

What tire pressure gauge do you recommend?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dester223 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sorry for the multiple replies.

Measured the circumference of the slicks. There is a difference of almost 2.25" between the left and right slick. I'm leaving the spool. and changing slicks/wheels.</TD></TR></TABLE>

At what psi did you make the measurements?Did you use your inaccurate pressure guage before measuring them?Be sure you get a matched set of slicks and bead lock them.Maybe the lsd was compensating for the difference in tire size a bit where as the spool will not.

 

Any decent low pressure tire gauge is fine. Most are around $30. I spent a little extra and got a higher end Moroso one, i think it was about $130. The incrementals are easier to read and over a wider range on the more expensive ones. I don't think those equalizer ones would be very convenient. Kinda seems like a pain in the *** to have to do both at once.

 

I am thinking about this one:
http://www.jegs.com/i/Percy's/760/01004/10002/-1

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dc2turbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

At what psi did you make the measurements?Did you use your inaccurate pressure guage before measuring them?Be sure you get a matched set of slicks and bead lock them.Maybe the lsd was compensating for the difference in tire size a bit where as the spool will not.</TD></TR></TABLE>

My pressure gauge has been calibrated by the snap on guy. So it's not inaccurate

Anywho, I measured the slicks @ 10 psi and that's when we found the 2.25" difference.
-Chuong

 

Ok next question. How did you get slicks so miss-matched?


Modified by 1992Si at 11:42 AM 4/17/2008

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1992Si &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ok next set of questions. How did you get slicks so miss-matched?</TD></TR></TABLE>
he could have had one at a higher pressue for a long time sitting which could cause it to expand or hand one in the sun for a long period of time. there are many different things that can make one slick larger.

 

Sorry,I thought you mentioned that your gauge was not that accurate.What brand of slicks do you have?