Sorry for the long post, but I want to get the details out up front.

Some background:

1991 Honda Civic DX 1.5L fuel-injected, 5-speed, 125k miles.

Vehicle has custom K&N intake with cone filter and high-performance NGK plugs and wires. Everything else is OE.

2 years ago, replaced fuel filter, which now has less than 20,000 mi on it.

Last year, replaced ignition coil and cap and rotor.

Lost a tube seal last year and engine was running very poor. Finally last month, we had the following replaced:

valve cover gasket, tube seals, plugs, wires, O2 sensor, oil change, air filter cleaned.

Car still mis-fired and idled a bit rough, and would not pass deq.

So we took it to the dealership and had it checked out.

They say the cat is no good (this explains the emissions problem) and it needs a valve adjustment (this explains the mis-firing). They also recommended a fuel system clean, engine decarb, and TB clean.

They wanted $700 to do the cat, so I will do that myself.

We went ahead and paid them $217 to do the cleaning and valve adjustment.

We picked the car up wednesday night and it ran really smooth after the repairs.

The problem:

We drove the car about 30 miles total between Wednesday and Thursday. No fuel was added, no changes made to vehicle. Late last night, the car would not start. Also this morning, it still will not start. The engine turns over and kinda starts to run, then it dies after a second or so. Tried giving it a little gas after cranking and didnt help.

Seems related to fuel system to me, like it isn't getting the fuel it needs to get up and running. The thing is, this was not an issue before the repairs on wednesday.

My question is what could it be? It seems obvious to me that it is somehow related to the work they did, but they deny this and will not help me get the car to them for diagnosis. I really dont want to pay to tow it over there when I feel this is a problem that they have created somehow.

Perhaps the fuel system clean loosened up a bunch of crap and my fuel filter is plugged? I dunno...

Any advice? Should I try replacing my fuel filter with my fingers crossed? I am so sick of throwing money at this crappy little car. Thanks for the help.

 

do you get a Check Engine Light?

 

No CEL.

 

could be the main relay

 

if it feels like a fuel issue, there's a possibility that the cat is plugged. you could try unbolting the exhaust after the header and trying to start it just to eliminate this as a possibility.

 

Thank you for the feedback guys.

I considered the main relay as a possibility, but the car has never died on me before, and seems like an intermittent main relay would have left me dead on the highway a time or two by now (unless oddly it just started acting up yesterday). I will definitely keep this in mind.

The idea about the cat being plugged is interesting... they did do an engine decarb...

Unfortunately I don't have any gear right now to remove the exhaust.

So you guys think there is no way it could be related to the fuel filter or fuel pump?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1991hondacivicdx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
So you guys think there is no way it could be related to the fuel filter or fuel pump?</TD></TR></TABLE>it could be - best way to tell is to check the fuel pressure (could also be fuel pressure regulator)

 

Thank you for the reply.

I got it started on my lunch break...

I pushed the gas pedal half-way to the floor, cranked the engine, and held the rpm's around 2500 or so for 15 seconds, then let it back to idle. It didn't die.

When it first started with the gas pedal pushed in, it chugga-chugga'd a bit, and a small cloud of super-rich exhaust blasted out the back. Then it eventually smoothed out, and that's when I let off the gas. The car ran really well after that.

I took it to the gas station, filled up the tank, and she started right up after the fill.

Then after sitting in the driveway for 30 min, it wouldn't start again. I used the same tactic to get it started, and this time it didn't chugga-chugga at all, it just needed a little help getting going, it seemed.

So here's the breakdown:

1) Once started, car runs and idles smooth, no smoking, no cel, does not die.

2) Will start right up after being shut off for short duration.

3) After being shut off for 30 min or more, car will not start without pressing gas pedal during crank.

4) problem exists whether engine is cold or warm.

So what potential problem would result in these symptoms? The dealer tech thought about it for 2 seconds and feels confident without looking at it or hearing the whole story that it is the master relay. I never had issues with it before though, so this would be a huge coincidence for it act up now, right after they did a bunch of stuff with the fuel and intake system.

Also, I'm not a f***ing retard. Each time I tried to start it, I would listen for the fuel pump to prime, and it always did, without fail, every time. If I had an intermittent relay, I think it would be a bit more obvious.

I told them the only way I could start it was to hold the gas pedal down and crank it. The tech said since it is FI car, all this does is open TB more, and amount of gas to engine is unaffected (um, duh?). So he insists this was just a coincidence that when the master relay decided to work, I was trying this at the same time.

I guess this is the kind of coincidence that happens twice in one hour. It will likely occur again tonight when I leave work. Amazing.

But perhaps it is the master relay, what the hell do I know?

Again, thank you for the help.

 

When my main relay went bad in my 1990 civic it was during the summer so it was during warmer weather, which when talking to the other techs I work with at a Honda dealership told me that is the most common timeframe for them to start acting up. Out of the blue one day after work I got in my car and tried to start it to leave and it just cranked for a really long time and then started so I thought it was just a one time thing. But then it did it to me again and I just held it cranking and it finally gave me a check engine light code 16 related to the pgmfi system. Inadequate fuel was to blame because the main relay was not supplying fuel to the engine because the fuel pump was not running. It would all of a sudden decide to run sometimes when I was cranking it though and then start right up. I replaced the main relay after looking up what was common to cause a code 16 on my car and I have never had a problem since. It was roughly $60 my cost from the dealer that I work for. Some of your symptoms sound like they could be main relay related but its hard to tell for sure without looking your car over personally. I would replace the main relay if you know you haven't ever replaced it as it may be showing its age. If you know that its not the main relay then I would look into either the ignition system, could be a weak spark ( I know you said you replaced the coil but still) or the compression. Do a compression test on the engine to see if when they adjusted the valves one was adjusted incorrectly, like making adjustments while not at tdc on the cylinder adjusting. Hope you find it.