H22, piston/rods, tuned, 300whp 16 psi, hondata s300. Had a wideband in the car, everything was fine. Motor has less than 3000km on it, broken in properly, then suddenly has a misfire after a hard pull. Compression check revield 3 cylinders fine (200psi), one down (140psi), pull the head to find this...all 4 pistons are in teh same shape






Thoughts?


Modified by ELSpool at 10:54 PM 3/24/2008

 

Old style CPs with the super thin valve-reliefs?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Minor Threat &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Old style CPs with the super thin valve-reliefs?</TD></TR></TABLE>

My thoughts exactly, but still this is a pretty catastrophic failure for 300whp

 

CP's were bought last year I believe for the build.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Schister66 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

My thoughts exactly, but still this is a pretty catastrophic failure for 300whp</TD></TR></TABLE>
yeah 300whp isnt exactly pushing the limits of those cp's
every piston has the same scoring/pitting marks
safe to say most likely the tuning is the cause behind the problem since every piston has the same damage. What was the timing like, is it possible that it had been lightly detonating under part throttle for awaile before the valve relief areas let go?

 

Good tune with safe A/F and conservative timing, car was runing great right up till this point. Seems weird it would happen to all pistons at the same time, but like you said, maybe it was happening over a short period until it finally showed signs.

 

fuel system issue. Low fuel....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ELSpool &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Good tune with safe A/F and conservative timing, car was runing great right up till this point. Seems weird it would happen to all pistons at the same time, but like you said, maybe it was happening over a short period until it finally showed signs.</TD></TR></TABLE>

post up the maps. keep in mind everybody definition of a "good" tune with "conservative" timing may be a little different. that motor got really hot, and with only 3000km on it, something serious had to be wrong

16psi on an H22 and only 300hp seems to be sign number 1. does this motor have a log manifold on it?

dyno charts would be helpful too

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by coneheadsracing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">fuel system issue. Low fuel.... </TD></TR></TABLE>


Yeah thats what I was thinking. For all 4 to break so quick it makes sense. Got hot, some detonation and the weakest part gave out.

 

It's hard to admit still to this day. Those CPs look like the set in my garage. Motor had 1000 miles of running 1000cc injectors with no resistor box...

Car was tuned and ran great other then erratic a/f raito at idle. Noticed the car started to overheat one day and took it to the shop for compression test, bad results. Later pulled the head to find valve reliefs toasted. All 4 pistons look like sandpaper on the top sides. I was glad I went 83mm. Live and learn.

 

Those looks like my old JE's after going way lean on a long pull with only 250whp or so, I would pull the turbine housing off your turbo, chances are those chunks of metal took out your turbine wheel too. Oddly enough my comp test also revealed a problem in only 1 cylinder, but all 4 of my pistons looked like yours but worse.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Turbo-charged &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">16psi on an H22 and only 300hp seems to be sign number 1. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Exactly what I was thinking. B's and H's can make 300whp if you drive into the wind.

ELSpool, what's the specs on the turbo system?

Did you do anything out of the ordinary with this "hard pull"? was the engine cold? (I noticed you're form Ottawa), was this a 5th gear top speed run? was your gas level low?

 

I'll get my friend to post the maps and graph (its his car), but my first thoughts were fuel pump died or a filter clogged as well when I saw the pics.

The turbo kit is a basic turbonetics kit, with crappy log manifold, small DP, 57 trim on a .63 ar stage 3 wheel. Thats why the power is low for the motor.

The car ran fine with the same kit at 10psi before he built the motor for the whole summer, could now the upped boost be causing too much backpressure for the restrictive setup?

 

Looks like you were running hot at one point, the outer edge on each piston looks clean, which I would assume you were running lean.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ELSpool &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the turbo kit is a basic turbonetics kit, with crappy log manifold, small DP, 57 trim on a .63 ar stage 3 wheel. Thats why the power is low for the motor.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

those kits are nothing but problems on the H series cars. get that junk off of there ASAP. i think they are more of an exhaust restriction than a power adder

 

The tank was full...wideband always read between 11.3-11.8... and the pull that showed signs of weakening was a third gear 1/2 of fourth gear pull. I apriciate all the input...I really don't wanna have to build it for a third time

Here's the map's

 

Which wideband?

 

Timing seems a bit high compared to my map, H deuce here as well, im about 2-4 degrees less in the entire boost portion.

Was base timing at the distributor set correctly?

I bought my h22a with those pistons in it they were all broken like yours are, the guy i bought it from also said it was tuned properly..

that ignition is much higher than mine, im also making about 450whp on 16psi tho....

3rd time?? perhaps you need a better tuner?

 

The timing looks a bit amateur.... (says the amateur ) - usually you'll see a hump (?at peak torque?) if the engine is fine tuned.

...and it doesnt look like you are using a map sensor that can handle 16psi - however, there is a huge dip in timing in col 13 to band-aid that.

IMO timing numbers are arbitrary from one setup (or software) to the next but your timing does not look 'conservative' compared mine.

 

ironically i tuned an h22 today that had the same manifold/downpipe combo

a 2 degree increase in timing showed a 30 horsepower increase in power, an additional degree dropped power by about 8-10hp.

your map is showing about 4 degree's more advance than mine- there is obviously a lot of variables on that

in all honesty i REALLY think your problem is the turbo kit, those things are disasters on those motors.....

 

yeah log manifolds are the worst...terrible backpressure. Almost any kind of tubular manifold will bring that thing to life.

 

The wideband in the car is the PLX SM-AFR...the tuner used his own wideband to tune the car. The map sensor is a GM 3bar...which was installed by the tuner the day of the tune cause the MSD one I had was defective.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Turbo-charged &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ironically i tuned an h22 today that had the same manifold/downpipe combo

a 2 degree increase in timing showed a 30 horsepower increase in power, an additional degree dropped power by about 8-10hp.

your map is showing about 4 degree's more advance than mine- there is obviously a lot of variables on that

in all honesty i REALLY think your problem is the turbo kit, those things are disasters on those motors.....</TD></TR></TABLE>

That is some really insightfully information thank you

 

is there any way you can post the "show 3 bar" tables, and the 2d map?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Turbo-charged &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">is there any way you can post the "show 3 bar" tables, and the 2d map?</TD></TR></TABLE>

IM your email and ill send you the whole bin file...its probably easier that way.