Hey. I'm contemplating buying a set of 17x7 Kosei ks-ts for my 07 si coupe - car is stock, soon to have HFP suspension. Seller has a set of hoosiers A6 mounted. A friend of mine told me theres a risk of rolling the car with that setup. I asked wtf he was talking about he said "breakaway left-rights in a saturn (low-cg) on slicks make em roll" I can see that happening on an hard off camber turn, or if I hit a rut in the pavement. But with the hfp suspension and a decent alignment I think I should be ok. I don't understand why slicks would make a car rolling much more likely so I thought I'd try to get a decent explanation here. Threads like these make me think twice.

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=290583

Peter

 

i wouldn't worry about it. you could be struck by lighting by stepping out your front door... gonna stay in forever?

 

I have never seen a real car grip-roll (where it has so much lateral traction it rolls over instead of sliding)

The only times I have seen cars roll were because they were going sideways and either went off into soft ground, dug in and rolled, or hit SOMETHING sideways to the same effect (curb, chuckhole, etc)

I have no fear of rolling when the car is under control, and in the instances above, the suspension setup, wheels, and tires woudl note affect teh outcome...

 

thats what I figured, but always good to get another opinion. Anyone ever see this happen?

 

There was a Mini that rolled last year at an autocross. More here:
http://rr-ax.com/bbs/forums/th...ode=1

 

I started tracking last year went to 3 events and saw 2 cars roll. Dont let this scare you away. But it does and can happen, like the guy said above when cars get sideways in the sand traps thats when it happens. so stay straight.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by starchland &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I started tracking last year went to 3 events and saw 2 cars roll. Dont let this scare you away. But it does and can happen, like the guy said above when cars get sideways in the sand traps thats when it happens. so stay straight.</TD></TR></TABLE>

if you hit a ramp at a high rate of speed with only half the car and turn in to it, the car will roll as well. he's asking about normal circumstances...

 

Presumably, if we're talking about Hoosier A6s, we're talking about autocrossing. Rollovers can happen; I've heard reliable accounts of a handful of rollovers. But I've been to close to 100 autox events and seen thousands runs, and I've never seen a rollover. So I would call it very unlikely.

R-compound tires make rollovers more likely, since they allow greater side loads before they slide. Good suspensions, in general, make rollovers less likely, as they allow less body roll, and my lower the cg. But in general, cars get to the point of sliding long before they want to roll. The SCCA bans certain vehicles (think SUVs) from competition on the basis of rollover risk.

 

well i've seen a spec race car flip at one of the last auto-x's i went to, I think it was a mg, and it was on hoosiers i do beleive.

im not worried about it

 

i personally know people that have rolled cars at teh track (2 at the glen, one at lrp) and at autocrosses (back when i first started). its not an every event coourance, but it is not an impossible thing. heck, i almost grip rolled my red car on stock shocks and victoracers back in the day.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Lo-Buck EF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i personally know people that have rolled cars at teh track (2 at the glen, one at lrp) and at autocrosses (back when i first started). its not an every event coourance, but it is not an impossible thing. heck, i almost grip rolled my red car on stock shocks and victoracers back in the day.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Out of curiosity is the red car an old hatch? If so I think I may have been at a NASA HPDE with you a few years back in November. I had a blue prelude and my friend had a grey mustang. As for rolling, how much less likely a coupe to roll vs a hatch? I assumed that bc a civic coupe is wide and low to the ground, it shouldn't be much of an issue, but if Saturn coupes have a tendency to roll, then perhaps they're not exempt.

 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0tZlCx9VYkI

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by n1_egsex &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">http://youtube.com/watch?v=0tZlCx9VYkI</TD></TR></TABLE>

thats not a grip roll, as he went sideways his right front went up the berm on the inside flipping it over.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by piotrush &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Out of curiosity is the red car an old hatch? If so I think I may have been at a NASA HPDE with you a few years back in November. I had a blue prelude and my friend had a grey mustang. As for rolling, how much less likely a coupe to roll vs a hatch? I assumed that bc a civic coupe is wide and low to the ground, it shouldn't be much of an issue, but if Saturn coupes have a tendency to roll, then perhaps they're not exempt.</TD></TR></TABLE>
yep. still got that car too. just for daily usage now tho.
as for the coupe vs hatch, the wheel track (width) and overall ride height in stock form is the same. so its not an issue. its the wheelbase thats the differance.

 

heres my good buddy john at an auto-X a few years back

http://video.google.com/videop...67881

almost a grip roll but the car is an EP setup

 

To roll a car autocrossing, you really have to try. I've seen three roll, including the Mini from last year. All 3 rolls were driver induced. If you get the car out of control in a slalom and you keep yanking the wheel back and forth on each slide trying to "save it", you dramatically increase your chances of putting it dirty side up. All 3 rolls I've seen where slalom type elements where the driver got crossed up, kept their foot in it, and tried to save the run.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by solo-x &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">To roll a car autocrossing, you really have to try. I've seen three roll, including the Mini from last year. All 3 rolls were driver induced.</TD></TR></TABLE>
That is interesting to hear... Is the cone of silence finally off that event? Care to tell us what happened (and how the insurance issue was resolved)?

 

^ I would also like to know - I read through a few pages of a thread about this incident, without any resolution.

On a side note, would any of the experienced auto-xers say that some one like me, who's only been to one event so far, should even participate on Hoosiers? I'm not in it to be competitive at all, just to have fun and learn, at least for now.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by piotrush &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
On a side note, would any of the experienced auto-xers say that some one like me, who's only been to one event so far, should even participate on Hoosiers? I'm not in it to be competitive at all, just to have fun and learn, at least for now.</TD></TR></TABLE>

A lot of people, myself included, would advise you to start out on street tires, for several reasons. R-comps have enough grip that they may cover up bad driving habits instead of teaching you good habits. Also, street tires tend to be more communicative. They squeal before they break loose, which is a nice learning tool. And last, since you won't be getting every last 1/10 of a second out of the tires anyway, why chew up expensive tires when you can chew up cheap ones?

 

+1 on street tires to start. Hoosiers will hide your mistakes and let you learn bad habits. As a n00b, you'll also burn them up really quickly.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by thawley &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
That is interesting to hear... Is the cone of silence finally off that event? Care to tell us what happened (and how the insurance issue was resolved)?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I thought I heard it was a broken wheel that started the roll, shot by the man in the grassy knoll opposite the library

 

Can a car roll? Yes. Is that a reason to avoid a performance suspension or tire setup? No. Safir stated the reason in the bolded statement below:

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Safir &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have never seen a real car grip-roll (where it has so much lateral traction it rolls over instead of sliding)

The only times I have seen cars roll were because they were going sideways and either went off into soft ground, dug in and rolled, or hit SOMETHING sideways to the same effect (curb, chuckhole, etc)

I have no fear of rolling when the car is under control, and in the instances above, the suspension setup, wheels, and tires woudl note affect teh outcome...</TD></TR></TABLE>

I also agree with those recommending street tires until you accumulate a fair amount of experience.

 

Thanks for the replies guys. I'm going to keep my eyes open for a set of 17x7.5 or 8 and get some hankook RS2 for them. So far my top wheel choices are rpf1s, k1-ts, and traklites 2.0 - if anyone else wants to make a recommendation let me know.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mike_C &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

if you hit a ramp at a high rate of speed with only half the car and turn in to it, the car will roll as well. he's asking about normal circumstances...</TD></TR></TABLE>

im not sure what your trying to say...it happened at a track under controlled albeit 'normal' conditions.