OK, so I've searched threads, and I've done a bunch of reading. I just want to be sure that I have this right.

I want to lower my car. My goals are:

1) improved handling in corners, less roll in the turns.
2) less fender gap.
3) maintain as much comfort in the ride as possible.

This is my DD, and I don't want to feel every little bump in the road, and I don't need my wife to complain about the ride whenever we go to the store. I understand that I will feel more of the road, and that's OK; I just don't want to bouncing all over the place. I will never take this car to the track.

I don't know how far I want to lower, but I don't want to be slammed. I still want it to look like a normal car for the most part. I haven't measured anything, but just looking at it from my desk, I'd guess 1" to 1.5" lower. And since I'm not sure, I think that it'd be nice to be able to adjust the height.

So, from my reading, I believe it's coilovers I want. It looks like it's pretty easy to install them, and I think they'll provide what I need. Now for the questions:

1) Which ones will give me quality and comfort?
2) Do I need a camber kit if I'm only lowering a bit? I will be buying new tires and I don't want to shred them (not even a little). I will do the camber kit even if it's only "kinda" necessary.
3) Anything else I'm missing?

Let's start my budget for this project at $1K.

Please let me know your thoughts.

Thanks!

 

if you just want to lower it and keep softer spring rates then you could just buy lowering springs instead of coilovers and save yourself a chunk of money.

improving handling will deminish ride comfort as you get tighter. its just the nature of the beast.

 

OK, I'll consider that. Any suggestions? How do I know which will lower me by 1-1.5" since they won't be adjustable?

What about the camber business? Will I need to make any other change there? I understand that I will need an alignment, and that's OK.

Thanks.

 

i am not too sure what is good. i know the standard big names are ok:

neuspeed sport springs should lower you 1.75in f/1.5in r
eibach pro-kit is 1.3in f/1.2in r
eibach sportline is 1.9in f/1.4in r

with their lowering springs they advertise how much lower the car should be. unfortunately they do not readily give details i am interested in, namely stiffness.

you will not need a camber kit if you are only going to lower it 1 or 1.5 inches. also, lowering springs alone should never be more than $200 and if the spring rates are soft enough you can hold onto your oem shocks.

if you were willing to sacrifice more comfort i would recommend you get some quality shock absorbers and get some stiffer springs, but if you want to maintain daily driven comfort then you really should try to keep things as close to oem as possible.

 

Excellent. Thanks for the comments.

More questions. What will coilovers do for me that lowering springs won't? (Aside from cost more?). All I read about is coilover, coilover, coilover... If I just lower it, will that necessarily improve handling? I see it lowers the center of gravity and reduces the amount of roll available. Any insight is appreciated.

Will one give better cornering performance than the other? I don't want to waste money if I don't have to, but I'm willing to spend more if it's a truly superior ride.

I'm willing to sacrifice some comfort for handling, but I dont' want it super bumpy. I expect to lose some comfort in this transaction; it doesn't have to be just like the stock ride.

Thanks again.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 20ls01 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">koni / ground control. if you want soft springs get somewhere like 350/300 and control the dampening for stiffness

there is lifetime warranty on both and those companies are one of the best in the business.

coilovers allow you to adjust the height to whatever you like. lowering springs are a set height.</TD></TR></TABLE>what are the factory rates on an 03 accord?

otto, the only advantage coilovers provide is adjustability. if you dont counterbalance your car or fine tune ride height then you do not need coilovers. if you really want to get into suspension goemetry, most cars will lower their roll center more than they will lower their center of gravity, and specifically from a suspension geometry point of view, this makes the car more willing to roll. generally a lower center of gravity is better, but you do have to maintain a balance here.

anyway, coilover or not, what really matter is the spring rate and, unfortunately, the only way to really get better handling is to tighten everything down. fyi, i do auto-x my car and i know i am not serious enough about it to buy coilovers. too each his own opinion, but it seems like for what you want, you can just pick up mildly stiffer lowering springs and be happy.

i am surprized not many other people have helped you out...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by thisisntjared &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">.
if you were willing to sacrifice more comfort i would recommend you get some quality shock absorbers and get some stiffer springs, but if you want to maintain daily driven comfort then you really should try to keep things as close to oem as possible.</TD></TR></TABLE>

If you lower the car but keep OE damper and spring rates (or close) then you'll get sick to death of the suspension bottoming out, especially with passengers in the rear seat.

This can be a problem even at stock ride height on rougher roads. At least it was with my CB7 Accord, which is at least one reason why I fitted Koni dampers, and the only reason I raised the rear suspension slightly, which on rough roads at stock height still bottomed occasionally with rear seat passengers, even with the Konis (which are the best dampers to get).

 

So could a reasonable compromise be to get the Ground Control springs, leave the OEM shocks, and see how it goes? If I don't like it, then I could add the Koni yellows later.

 

I've a lot of experience in this question.
I did the same research and had the same feeling in regards to the Mrs. complaining at you because you dropped your car so low.

Right now your car stock ride height allows you to go over every speed bump and dip with out a care in the world. Pot holes are no concern either, unless they are deep and big. This is how your wife likes it and expects it to be after your done. Depending on the year of your car you will have different ride height springs and if you have an older model Honda you may want to go ahead and replace the Struts. Since you have $1000 to play with...Toss all of these out the window and consider a complete Damper upgrade, there's a ton of options out there and they will allow you to dial in exactly how you want to drive, handle and sit.

When I first started I bought lowering springs and kept the stock struts on, I increased the handling a bit but did not sacrifice comfort.
Spring Suggestion:
H&R sport springs 1.9" - 1.8"
Eibach pro kit Spring 1.5" - 1.5"
Tein Sport Springs 1.3" - 1.5"

Those are the top 3 sets you can buy (all sets can be bought for well under $200.00). They will give you a mild range in drop without drastically going extremely low. Plus you will not have to worry about a camber kit. Camber DOESN'T wipe your tires by the way, Its the TOE angle. A small degree of camber is actually acceptable, but extreme camber (past 2") will truly wear your tire. So most likely you will see a slight change in your rear wheels.

If you desire to correct the camber and not want to spend an arm and a leg, buy the simplest camber correction kit.

Camber Kit Suggestion
For the REAR
Omni Power Camber Kit Bolts and washers. approx. $20.00
http://www.omnipowerusa.com/product.asp?P_ID=126
For the FRONT
the simplest kit to buy is the Ingalls camber correction kit.
Here's the website
http://www.ingallseng.com/perf...e.htm

So far you haven't spent more than $350 for springs and camber correction kits.
If you are going to replace the stock struck with O.E. quality with a little bit of performance enhancement and not break your budget here's what you have to look for.

Struts
KYB GR-2 &lt;$200.00
Tokico Blue &lt;$250.00
Koni Red &lt;$250.00
*Source - ebay as of 02/22/08


COIL OVER SLEEVES
If you want to be able to adjust your ride height...this is where the fun begins but the Wife hates you as you go lower.
I've been a proponent for Omni Power and have had nothing but good words for them. But, you can go with even higher quality and buy Ground Control Sleeves. Just stay away from the cheap quality ones that Ebay sells that have unknown names. I've used Drop Zone and they are really bad and poor in quality, Plus you will be bouncing your car a hell of a lot.

Look for these.
OMNI POWER - &lt;$200.00
You can either buy direct or through e-bay or someone on H-T.
http://www.omnipowerusa.com/product.asp?P_ID=123

GROUND CONTROL - &lt;$300.00
http://motors.shop.ebay.com/_C...tasZ1

Skunk2 - probably the same if not exactly like the Omni Power.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ottomatic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So could a reasonable compromise be to get the Ground Control springs, leave the OEM shocks, and see how it goes? If I don't like it, then I could add the Koni yellows later. </TD></TR></TABLE>it really depends on how much stiffer your springs are. if you are going to get coilovers, the spring rates are usually significantly stiffer and i would really recommend getting shocks to cope with it, or the ride will be even worse.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by johnlear &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you lower the car but keep OE damper and spring rates (or close) then you'll get sick to death of the suspension bottoming out, especially with passengers in the rear seat.

This can be a problem even at stock ride height on rougher roads. At least it was with my CB7 Accord, which is at least one reason why I fitted Koni dampers, and the only reason I raised the rear suspension slightly, which on rough roads at stock height still bottomed occasionally with rear seat passengers, even with the Konis (which are the best dampers to get). </TD></TR></TABLE>i know you know this, but your post seems to mislead. different shocks will not help with bottoming out, unless you have a shorter shaft, or modified top hat. regular old koni yellows are not going to stop you from bottoming out if the springs are too soft and the car is too low.

dont get me wrong, i love my konis, but otto specified he doesnt want to sacrafice ride comfort and oem shocks with a midly stiffer/lower spring would be the best thing to do that.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by thisisntjared &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i know you know this, but your post seems to mislead. different shocks will not help with bottoming out, unless you have a shorter shaft, or modified top hat. regular old koni yellows are not going to stop you from bottoming out if the springs are too soft and the car is too low.

dont get me wrong, i love my konis, but otto specified he doesnt want to sacrafice ride comfort and oem shocks with a midly stiffer/lower spring would be the best thing to do that.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Koni yellows have a significantly (but not substantially) higher bump rate than the stock dampers, so increase resistance to bump loadings and thus bump travel will be less in response to sharp bumps. If the car tends to bottom out on bumps then the Konis will decrease this to some degree.

I do think Konis are a little light on in bump rate, but from memory most other 'performance' dampers don't seem much different in bump rating according to the graphs I've seen. Konis do manage to balance low shaft input speed bump stiffness with high shaft input speed bump stiffness quite well, i.e. they are stiffish at low speed inputs (most important for controlling weight transfer for handling purposes) but still quite supple for high speed inputs such as hitting large bumps. If they were stiffer overall in bump (as I'd personally prefer) they'd be more resistant to bottoming out, but be noticably harsher.

Konis improve handling mostly from having a substantially higher rebound rate (at least you can adjust it that way. This is a bit simplastic, it's not just the raw stiffness in bump and rebound that makes Konis so good, it's how the stiffness changes with input speeds, and also the quality of design, manufacture of components that makes then very long lasting and consistant in performance (particularly with temperature changes in the fluid, which can cause substantial stiffness changes with other adjustable dampers).

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 20ls01 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
unless you get dampening shocks, even then it will still be somewhat stiff</TD></TR></TABLE>

What does that mean? All 'shocks' are "dampening shocks", it's inherant in what they do, as implied by their real name, i.e. 'dampers'.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 20ls01 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
omni power will def be too stiff for his wife. i dont recommend it, unless you get dampening shocks, even then it will still be somewhat stiff</TD></TR></TABLE>

Going to disagree with your opinion. I've used the Omni Power sleeves for a few years and I do a lot of driving. these are not stiff they are only meant to maintain ride height, albeit they do absorb some shock while going over rough surfaces, but for the most part they are just there to keep the chassis at a level plane. But how well a spring absorbs shock is where quality of manufacture comes in. Eibach is supposed to be #1. All the rest are basically #2.

Struts / Dampers which are one in the same are meant to do exactly what the guy is mentioning above. Yes, adjustable struts Do help and will either provide you with a soft ride for comfort or a harsh ride for spirited driving and handling.

Currently I have Tokico Illuminas up front and have my setting at 2 which is a soft ride and is comfortable. bumps and irregular roads aren't too bad, but if I do hit a sharp dip I get that feeling of bottoming out on one side...it makes me feel like I just blew it. For the Rear (temporarily until $$ comes in) I have my stock units on. I'm waiting for a complete set of KYB GR-2's to come back as warranty replacement and will most likely turn around and sell or trade them for Rear Illuminas.

 

The only advice I have for you is that make sure that if you get custom springs like ground control, that they don't spec springs that are too short.

 

Thanks for all the comments, guys; I really appreciate it. I'll take everything under consideration, and see if I can come up with something that'll work for me...

Any other opinions welcome!

 

So here are the Konis.

http://www.koni-na.com/cat_sea...t.y=9

And here are the GCs:

http://www.ground-control-stor...CA=61

I thnk this is the way I'm gonna go. Things should be pretty adjusable, and if it's way to stiff, I can change it. Second time should be easier, right?

I think that I should be able to get these parts from H-T forum sponsors, so I'll poke around for them later.

Now, are there any other parts I'm forgetting that I'll need? Top hats, other sleeves, nuts, bolts, wingdings or any other crap that I'll discover I need when my car is taken half apart?

It seems like the install is pretty straight forward. I read the Koni install sticky at the top of the Suspension forum, and though it was done on an Integra, I think things will be pretty similar. Any other suggestions on learning how to do this?

Thanks again, everyone!

 

OK, even though I said I would only have one piece of advice, I'll offer some more anyway. I think a major mistake people make when buying ground controls is that people just let the company spec the springs. GC tends to spec springs that are too short and too stiff, especially if you just want to lower by a little bit and have a comfy daily driver. I really think you need to calculate the correct spring rate and length for your application. In the worst case, you will coil-bind your springs. You need to research and determine these things:

Do you want linear or progressive spring rates?
How much of a change in front and rear natural frequency are you willing to tolerate (this determines change in perceived stiffness, as well as oversteer and understeer characteristics)?
What are the longest springs that you can buy which both avoid coil bind, and let you have whatever height adjust range you want?

To do these calculations, you need to know the specs for your current springs and dampers. You can see some of the calculations I did here:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2062714
If you just buy regular non-adjustable springs, you won't have to do the length calculation, of course.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by johnlear &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Koni yellows have a significantly (but not substantially) higher bump rate than the stock dampers, so increase resistance to bump loadings and thus bump travel will be less in response to sharp bumps. If the car tends to bottom out on bumps then the Konis will decrease this to some degree.

I do think Konis are a little light on in bump rate, but from memory most other 'performance' dampers don't seem much different in bump rating according to the graphs I've seen. Konis do manage to balance low shaft input speed bump stiffness with high shaft input speed bump stiffness quite well, i.e. they are stiffish at low speed inputs (most important for controlling weight transfer for handling purposes) but still quite supple for high speed inputs such as hitting large bumps. If they were stiffer overall in bump (as I'd personally prefer) they'd be more resistant to bottoming out, but be noticably harsher.

Konis improve handling mostly from having a substantially higher rebound rate (at least you can adjust it that way. This is a bit simplastic, it's not just the raw stiffness in bump and rebound that makes Konis so good, it's how the stiffness changes with input speeds, and also the quality of design, manufacture of components that makes then very long lasting and consistant in performance (particularly with temperature changes in the fluid, which can cause substantial stiffness changes with other adjustable dampers).

</TD></TR></TABLE>ah your right! i forgot that the konis only allow the adjustment the rebound!