i searched in every steering problem thread but nobody has had this problem.

today when i was driving straight i noticed that my steering wheel was about 30 degrees to the right. normally it has been only about 2-5 degrees to the right. so i drive to work with the steering wheel all crooked. then after work as i turn out of the parking lot, the wheel is straight for a little bit as i drive down the street. then when i make a 90* right turn and go straight, the wheel is 30* again. later on i make a 90* left and go straight and the wheel is 30* to the left.

so wtf. i havent checked for loose stuff yet but i recently checked my suspension and stuff and everything was fine but ill check again. what should i check for and how do i check the steering rack/pinion. please ask any helpful questions that might trigger something and please throw out any suggestions, thanks a lot.

 

any suggestions/ideas?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTEC_Du_Ma_Mai &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">any suggestions/ideas?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah, I'd suggest you tell us what car this is so I can figure out what type of steering rack it has.

Is the rack leaking at all? Have you checked the condition of the protective bellows? Are the tie rods in good shape? Are all ball joints tight? Wheel hubs/bearings tight?

I would suggest not driving the car on the street at all, otherwise you're running the risk of a major problem.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTEC_Du_Ma_Mai &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">any suggestions/ideas?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, something is seriously wrong in the suspension department. Check everthing for tightness and wear, front and rear.

Also, check both front and rear subframes for cracks and that they are both securly bolted to the chassis.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Targa250R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Yeah, I'd suggest you tell us what car this is so I can figure out what type of steering rack it has.

Is the rack leaking at all? Have you checked the condition of the protective bellows? Are the tie rods in good shape? Are all ball joints tight? Wheel hubs/bearings tight?</TD></TR></TABLE>

oh sorry, its a 96 GSR. and i havent checked but im going to soon. i will check everything out and get back to you so you can help me out some more. thanks a lot. and are there any other specific things to look for besides what you guys have mentioned?

 

i checked everything but the steering column. the tie rods both look fine and the boots are still intact. however, i noticed that two of the bolts holding the rack to the car came out, one was totally backed out and the other is totally gone. i have to replace the missing bolt tomorrow cuz every store's closed right now. are there any other parts that could be missing cuz i cant seem to find anything else. and once i replace the bolts, should everything be fine or should i drive it down the street then determine afterwards. thanks a lot for the help.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTEC_Du_Ma_Mai &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i, i noticed that two of the bolts holding the rack to the car came out, one was totally backed out and the other is totally gone. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Are the two bolts in question at one end of the rack, and if so which side, and is it a LHD or RHD car?

If both bolts (the missing and the loose) are on the same side of the rack housing, then when a load is applied to the rack, the rack housing may drop at the loose end. This would cause a toe-out condition that would be located on the side that has lowered, meaning you'd have to steer to one side for the toe to equalise (but still be toe-out).

In some circumstances force could cause the rack housing to lower at the loose end, but when an opposite force is applied it migh pull the rack housing back up, thus removing the toe-out condition and causing the wheel to be centred again.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTEC_Du_Ma_Mai &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i checked everything but the steering column. the tie rods both look fine and the boots are still intact. however, i noticed that two of the bolts holding the rack to the car came out, one was totally backed out and the other is totally gone. i have to replace the missing bolt tomorrow cuz every store's closed right now. are there any other parts that could be missing cuz i cant seem to find anything else. and once i replace the bolts, should everything be fine or should i drive it down the street then determine afterwards. thanks a lot for the help. </TD></TR></TABLE>

just replace the bolts and then take it for a test drive. hopefully its all good after that. your steering wheel shouldnt ever be crooked.

 

it may sound stupid but how about your tire preasure? your loose and missing bolts may be your problem but low preasure on one side will cause your car to pull in that direction causing you to correct to the opposite

 

johnlear: its a LHD usdm gsr. i dont exactly know what you mean by which side, but they are pretty much in the middle of the rack and thats the only area i could find where anything is bolted to the car.

nub: my tire pressure is actually fine, its around 35. i had that happen one time and my car handled like ****.

and to clear something up, i dont actually have to correct the wheel for either direction. its just that when i turn 90 degrees and then go straight, the wheel is way crooked to the side i just turned. and when i let go of the wheel it still drives straight without very much pull at all, but still with a crooked *** steering wheel.

thanks for all of the feedback so far, and please keep them coming.

 

hmmm, the only thing i can think of off hand is is the bolts you mentioned earlier are letting your rack to shift from side to side when you make a hard (90 deg.) turn. the wheels (wheel and tire) go straight after, but the rack is pulling your steering wheel off center?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTEC_Du_Ma_Mai &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">johnlear: its a LHD usdm gsr. i dont exactly know what you mean by which side, but they are pretty much in the middle of the rack and thats the only area i could find where anything is bolted to the car.
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I'd expect the rack housing to be attached to the chassis with four bolts, two at each end. I'm having trouble imagining a rack housing attached only by two bolts in the middle (?).

I asked if the car was RHD or LHD and which of the four bolts (that I was assuming to exist) were loose / missing in order to try and figure out if my diagnosis fitted with the direction in which you reported the steering wheel to be pointing when it pointed away from the straight ahead.

I wasn't assuming you had any steering pull issues since you didn't say you did.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by johnlear &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I asked if the car was RHD or LHD and which of the four bolts (that I was assuming to exist) were loose / missing in order to try and figure out if my diagnosis fitted with the direction in which you reported the steering wheel to be pointing when it pointed away from the straight ahead.

I wasn't assuming you had any steering pull issues since you didn't say you did. </TD></TR></TABLE>

no i understand completely. i put the part about clearing things up about the steering pull for anyone else that was gonna try to help me. thanks a lot. both you and nub have been very helpful. and i think there are only two bolts because i can push the rack away from the chassis about half an inch and i cant find any other part that would be connected to the chassis but ill keep looking.

 

johnlear: actually, youre right. there was a bracket with two bolts holding the passenger side of the rack. so the loose bolts were on the driver side.

i replaced the bolts and drove it around the block. everything seems to be fine and the steering wheel straightens out again. the only problem now is the wheel is slightly crooked, so ill need an alignment. thanks for all the help.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTEC_Du_Ma_Mai &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">johnlear: actually, youre right. there was a bracket with two bolts holding the passenger side of the rack. so the loose bolts were on the driver side.
i replaced the bolts and drove it around the block. everything seems to be fine and the steering wheel straightens out again. the only problem now is the wheel is slightly crooked, so ill need an alignment. thanks for all the help.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That fits exactly with what I was thinking, i.e. the left side of the rack housing drops causing the rack housing and left tie rod to form a shallow 'V' (instead of a 'straight line'), which causes toe-out centred on the left side, and meaning the steering wheel needs to turn tight in order for the toe to equalise side to side.

You do need an alignment, if for no other reason than to check it, it may not be out if it was OK before the rack came loose.

 

i was wondering something. when they do an alignment, how do they straighten the wheel. the reason why im asking is that when the two bolts holding the rack were off and the car was raised, i could hold the wheels in place while turning the steering wheel. this is why my strg. wheel is still slightly crooked. what i did was hold the wheels straight and turned the steering wheel until it was straight also and then tightened the bolts down. but i guess i didnt do it perfectly since i just eyeballed it. so i guess im asking whether i should just leave it alone and get an alignment or adjust it so that its straighter for the time being. thanks again.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTEC_Du_Ma_Mai &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i was wondering something. when they do an alignment, how do they straighten the wheel. the reason why im asking is that when the two bolts holding the rack were off and the car was raised, i could hold the wheels in place while turning the steering wheel. this is why my strg. wheel is still slightly crooked. what i did was hold the wheels straight and turned the steering wheel until it was straight also and then tightened the bolts down. but i guess i didnt do it perfectly since i just eyeballed it. so i guess im asking whether i should just leave it alone and get an alignment or adjust it so that its straighter for the time being. thanks again.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm not sure what you mean by "i could hold the wheels in place while turning the steering wheel". However, if the left side of the rack was floating up and down then the left wheel could be 'held' at a certain position and the steering wheel turned (to some degree) with no change in the angle of the left wheel. This would be because the steering motion is being taken up as vertical rack motion, and not lateral motion transferring to the left wheel. I can't see why the right wheel wouldn't move though, assuming that end of the rack isn't free to 'float' down and up.

Your problem is obviously the result of the steering rack bolts not having been properly tightened the last time the rack was put back on the car. It wouldn't be surprising if even the bolts that weren't missing or obviously loose were also loose enough to allow some lateral rack movement as the steering wheel is turned, and this might allow some limited degree of steering input without actually turning either wheel. Make sure all four attachment bolts are properly tightened.

When performing a front toe alignment, the steering wheel will be placed and held (with some clamping arrangement) at the straight ahead position while toe is set to zero at both sides (or whatever toe value the toe is being set to, equally at each side).

Very often this won't guarantee that the steering wheel actually will be at the exact straight ahead position when driving the car (often caused by the tyres, but other alignments not being exactly spot on can cause this too), so after a test drive the steering wheel position may need to be adjusted by shortening a tie rod on one side and lengthening the other tie rod by an equal amount (the aligner should then recheck total toe).

This moves the rack itself (not the rack housing, but the rack shaft) slightly to one side, and thus the steering wheel position will change when the car is driving in a straight line. Just which tie rod is shortened and which lengthened depends on which way the steering wheel is pointing away from straight ahead.

 

damn, that was a very good explanation, thanks a lot. however, i now have a few more questions.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by johnlear &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Your problem is obviously the result of the steering rack bolts not having been properly tightened the last time the rack was put back on the car.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

when you say this, does that mean the alignment ppl have something to do with it, or are you just saying in general, when the last time the rack was touched. and when do you ever mess with the rack besides when you replace it?, i think you know what i mean.

and when i said i held the wheels in place, i actually wasnt thinking about the right side as well. what i actually did was, while the car was raised, push against one side of the driver side wheel with my knee and turn the steering wheel, so that when i straightened the steering wheel out the driver side wheel was pointing straight also. i did not think about the effect this would have on the passenger side wheel, i was assuming that they would both move together. so do you think this would be a big problem? both of the wheels point pretty straight but there is still a slight pull to the right. so i guess in the end, all i need is an alignment.


Modified by VTEC_Du_Ma_Mai at 3:30 PM 2/17/2008

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTEC_Du_Ma_Mai &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> when you say this, does that mean the alignment ppl have something to do with it, or are you just saying in general, when the last time the rack was touched. and when do you ever mess with the rack besides when you replace it?, i think you know what i mean. </TD></TR></TABLE>

The rack itself needn't be touched during an alignment (just the tie rods and rod ends). I meant the bolts must not have been tightened properly whenever (and by whoever) the rack was last taken off the car then replaced for whatever reason.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTEC_Du_Ma_Mai &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> i was assuming that they would both move together. so do you think this would be a big problem? both of the wheels point pretty straight but there is still a slight pull to the right. so i guess in the end, all i need is an alignment. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Unless the rack was loose as described both wheels will turn when the steering is turned. Tighten everything as it should be and the problem will disappear.

If you have a steering pull it won't be caused by the toe angle, but could be unequal camber, unequal caster (unlikely), or rear end alignment. Tyres can also cause a pull.

 

ok, thanks for all the help and information, i appreciate it.