I just want some of your opinions on what type of steering you guys would rather road race with. I know that with manual you get that sort of "feel" on the road and can actually sense the wheels turning, but then with power, you just flick left or right and it goes that way. And I don't want answers like "well I go with manual cause it takes weight off my car from all the power steering crap", that's not what I'm asking. People who have road raced before would help.

 

Moved from Suspension to Road Racing/Autocross. This is not going to end up conclusive, so it's somewhat fruitless to make a poll. We've covered this topic in the past with inconclusive results.

First of all, anyone who actually competes in sanctioned road racing is going to tell you the same thing - they will run whatever is allowed by rules. Many classes don't allow removal of power steering on a car equipped as such from the factory.

Secondly, it's a matter of preference. Many drivers prefer power steering because it lessens driver effort and fatigue over long hauls. This may not be a huge issue for sprint races, but is definitely a consideration for enduros. It's also a cosideration for cars that require a lot of steering effort in certain situations (my autocross car, for instance, with 225/45-13 tires on 8" wheels with a low offset). Many national-level autocrossers have rigged up setups with electric-driven power steering pumps (sourced from MR2s, Subarus, and other equipped cars) on low-power Prepared-class cars for exactly this reason.

In addition, power steering is advantageous in some cases because most power racks have faster ratios than manual racks for the same vehicle. Power steering is mandatory if a steering quickener is being used, as with an open wheel car or sports racer; pumps must be modified to avoid cavitation.

Many other drivers prefer a manual rack because of the road feel and feedback it provides through the steering. This is the main reason I've kept the manual rack in my car. Not to mention, there are less failure-prone parts and you have one less fluid reservoir to spill on track in the event of a problem or crash. Manual racks rarely develop problems, and there is never a risk of pump cavitation causing a loss of steering boost during abrupt maneuvers.

Why are you asking this question?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DjBij099 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I know that with manual you get that sort of "feel" on the road</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'd hate to lose a drag race down the front straight because I decided to keep my power steering pump.

OTOH, KIWI just posted in here about his cool electric power steering pump. I think street MR2's use a pressure sensor to know whether to turn the motor on or not, but he's using it always-on. I wouldn't suggest something like that for a street car.

I don't think the manual rack takes much effort once you're moving, but I don't turn the wheel much, and I don't do enduro's.

 

While I stick to HPDE only, I use a GSR rack converted to manual use. You'll hear the same pitch from me as anyone else with a manual setup, however I would never use an OEM Honda manual rack, they are just way to long. My hatch CX hatch is only 2100 pounds, so its not hard at all. I actually love the steering of my car.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Targa250R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Moved from Suspension to Road Racing/Autocross. This is not going to end up conclusive, so it's somewhat fruitless to make a poll. We've covered this topic in the past with inconclusive results.

First of all, anyone who actually competes in sanctioned road racing is going to tell you the same thing - they will run whatever is allowed by rules. Many classes don't allow removal of power steering on a car equipped as such from the factory.

Secondly, it's a matter of preference. Many drivers prefer power steering because it lessens driver effort and fatigue over long hauls. This may not be a huge issue for sprint races, but is definitely a consideration for enduros. It's also a cosideration for cars that require a lot of steering effort in certain situations (my autocross car, for instance, with 225/45-13 tires on 8" wheels with a low offset). Many national-level autocrossers have rigged up setups with electric-driven power steering pumps (sourced from MR2s, Subarus, and other equipped cars) on low-power Prepared-class cars for exactly this reason.

In addition, power steering is advantageous in some cases because most power racks have faster ratios than manual racks for the same vehicle. Power steering is mandatory if a steering quickener is being used, as with an open wheel car or sports racer; pumps must be modified to avoid cavitation.

Many other drivers prefer a manual rack because of the road feel and feedback it provides through the steering. This is the main reason I've kept the manual rack in my car. Not to mention, there are less failure-prone parts and you have one less fluid reservoir to spill on track in the event of a problem or crash. Manual racks rarely develop problems, and there is never a risk of pump cavitation causing a loss of steering boost during abrupt maneuvers.

Why are you asking this question?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, I had a Prelude SH before I crashed it and have always wondered how it might have felt without power steering. You know, whether the ATTS might have been more responsive or not. It felt awesome turning at like 75mph and my friends thinking it was understeer, then I just hit the throttle and it started to turn towards the inside curb instead of the outside. They were shocked as was I. Oh, this was done on closed roads in Mexico

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DjBij099 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Well, I had a Prelude SH before I crashed it and have always wondered how it might have felt without power steering. You know, whether the ATTS might have been more responsive or not. It felt awesome turning at like 75mph and my friends thinking it was understeer, then I just hit the throttle and it started to turn towards the inside curb instead of the outside. They were shocked as was I. Oh, this was done on closed roads in Mexico </TD></TR></TABLE>

No one (?) road races with the ATTS, so it's a bit of a moot point. If you hadn't already crashed it, I'd say ditch it and get a real LSD.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DjBij099 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Oh, this was done on closed roads in Mexico </TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah, well I'm not surprised you crashed it.

 

Manual by far... unless I am doing distance

 

Manual...heck it is the only option I have for my kart at this point in time.

m-

 

Come on Guys!!!!
Some of you are joking right? We are talking about Road Racing... On a track, in a front wheel drive car making decent power right?

Quote: Use a manual rack because of the "Road feel, and feedback it provides through the steering"...?
I think I can speak for many a seasoned racer, while hurtling around turn Nine at Willow Springs, hanging on for grim death... on the absolute limit of adhesion and control, at every bump in the track thinking... That's it! I'm done for! Most would admit the last thought they have is... "God let me get away with this and I prommise I'll never try it again!"
Not: "Wow the road feel and feedback this manual rack provides is wonderfull"
If you do think that... You are not trying hard enough! and you are probably holding real racers up!
Power Steering any day!

Kiwi

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Targa250R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Yeah, well I'm not surprised you crashed it. </TD></TR></TABLE>

And how does this help my question?? I know I messed up, but we all do at one time or another. So please, keep your useless comments to yourself.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris F &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

No one (?) road races with the ATTS, so it's a bit of a moot point. If you hadn't already crashed it, I'd say ditch it and get a real LSD. </TD></TR></TABLE>

That's cool though, it got me 1 year's worth of good credit

 

tried both and prefered PS by far

 

definately a prefferance thing. ive driven non-ps most of my compettitive/high performance driving life witht he few co-drives and 'drive my car and tell me what you think' situations and i honestly do not care. i think ps makes the car easier to drive.

 

I have driven cars with both (in sprint races and enduro's).

With the manual you feel everything. Every bump you fight to keep the wheels were you want to go, then when you hit a burm you better have a grip on the wheel. You really can feel when the tires break away tho..

With the power steering, you have to put little to no effort to turn the wheel and I have never had the wheel pulled out of my hands when hitting burms. It definatly harder to tell when the front wheels are just at the limit, but with some seat time you can tell..

I run with PS. Just makes life easier.... on the track, in the paddock and pulling on and off the trailer.

 

Long races PS Short races Manual...

 

for street car PS,, for Race car youd better ditch that crap

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris F &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I'd hate to lose a drag race down the front straight because I decided to keep my power steering pump.

OTOH, KIWI just posted in here about his cool electric power steering pump. I think street MR2's use a pressure sensor to know whether to turn the motor on or not, but he's using it always-on. I wouldn't suggest something like that for a street car.

I don't think the manual rack takes much effort once you're moving, but I don't turn the wheel much, and I don't do enduro's.</TD></TR></TABLE>

This post from just above may help. It can be PS and just as fast

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread/2222562

Unless you are concerned about the small weight addition

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris F &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
OTOH, KIWI just posted in here about his cool electric power steering pump. </TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kay_animation &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This post from just above may help. It can be PS and just as fast </TD></TR></TABLE>

I read the article. No P/S is free and lighter and is 1 less failure point.

-Chris

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DjBij099 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So please, keep your useless comments to yourself. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Please keep it civil. Bagging on the mod that helped put your thread in the right forum is, likely, not an effective method to aid discussion. And please don't reply with "he started it."

To give my .02, a good power steering system almost every time. IMHO, if you're getting out-paced on the straight from the other guy's 8 extra hp, then you need to work on your corner exit.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris F &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No P/S is free and lighter and is 1 less failure point.</TD></TR></TABLE>

However, the above are very good points esp. "1 less failure point." Still, IMHO, the benefits outweigh the risks.

 

I voted for P/S despite my H4 car having no P/S (failed attempt at lifting the engine - ended up dropping the motor on the P/S reservoir )

I found it surprisingly easy to get along with - but it's likely due to the fact the motor struggles to make 100whp (has 450,000kms) Double the power like on my DC2 and I run with the P/S

 

I want the true feel at my hands with no assistance.

 

ive autocrossed and street driven my ex eg hatch with a fully built b (approx 200whp) and i liked the feel of that alot better than the limited time ive had with my newly aquired 4dr gsr. ill be converting my power rack to a manualish type setup when i put my old motor in the car. the feeling of the ps is just too flimsy feeling. it seems that the weight of my hand can make the car move quite abruptly and im not fond of that. just my useless opinion though.