If I designed my own piston and machined it would it cost alot. I have auto cad as well as a lathe and milling machine I can use at my friends shop he's got a bunch of machinery.

 

 

Why don't you just do it? Pretty easy to price materials if your labor is 'free'

 

there is alot involved with it, compression heights, wrist pin heights, ring lands and ring grooves, theres alot of thought that goes into making a piston as well as valve pocket andles and sizes. i have modified pistons to clear grp rods and and done valve pockets, the fixturing to do that stuff is a big deal as well as the one key thing to making a good piston--- forging

i would try to make a piston for like a r/c car motor first and then try a dirt bike piston and work your way up, im not trying to discurage. i think its awsome but i dont think that you have thought out all the details, oiling is a huge thing too. what does your friend have just a manual lathe and brigeport(eztrak??) if you have access to a 5 axis mill or multi axis lathe with live spindle for cross milling you would be better off. if you can use gibbs or mastercam your a step ahead of me

 

I will ask tommorow what kind of machinery he's working with. Do you or anyone know what a set of four would roughly cost ? I'm taking a CAD class in school for mechanical engineering and our proffessor is going to teach us how to design a piston tommorow. sorry for any grammatical errors I'm in class right now.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 4drsedaneg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">there is alot involved with it, compression heights, wrist pin heights, ring lands and ring grooves, theres alot of thought that goes into making a piston as well as valve pocket andles and sizes. i have modified pistons to clear grp rods and and done valve pockets, the fixturing to do that stuff is a big deal as well as the one key thing to making a good piston--- forging

i would try to make a piston for like a r/c car motor first and then try a dirt bike piston and work your way up, im not trying to discurage. i think its awsome but i dont think that you have thought out all the details, oiling is a huge thing too. what does your friend have just a manual lathe and brigeport(eztrak??) if you have access to a 5 axis mill or multi axis lathe with live spindle for cross milling you would be better off. if you can use gibbs or mastercam your a step ahead of me</TD></TR></TABLE>

i concur. i hate to be pessimistic but i think you're in over your head. the machining that goes into it has to be dead on, within .0001" tolerances and all the features that make up a piston are not trivial. their geometry, location, orientation, size, are critical as hell.

 

How about you design one, then send your drawings to Diamond and have them do the manufacturing for you. They have consulting services and can review your application with you and tell you what will work and what won't.

http://www.diamondracing.net/custom_pistons.asp

 

i agree with t4 neon, many piston manufacturers will custom make pistons to your specs. draw it up and have the piston gods do the machining.

 

why is it every schlep that has some cad experience thinks they can take on something like this?

i mean, the companies that engineer these for a living spend countless hours on r & d to make parts properly and ensure that they are reliable. everyone seems to think stuff is made by magic or something. it would take weeks to make your own set of pistons... with just a lathe and a milling machine, it would take months, and probably a few efforts due to mistakes. and that doesn't even count the forging if you want it made to last.

imo, if you really want a set of pistons, just shell out the $400-$600 for a set and save yourself the hassle.

but you could just ignore everything i just said and go ahead and prove everyone wrong and make some. it sure would make you cool.

 

I acknowledge that I am not capable of taking something like this on. I'm a student in county college one of my required courses is CAD, We are only on our second week of class. So that I am not capable is a FACT. I should of been a little more straightforward with my question. The real question is, how much do you guys think or know the raw materials for such a project would cost.

I only mentioned my friend with the machine shop because he's already a mechanical engineer and If I really wanted to do something like this and his machinery is capable, he would definitely help me ( If I paid for the materials). I hope this is a little bit more clear.

 

Are you trying to make a better piston or just one that will run a motor for a few minutes?

 

As of right now I'm just trying to figure out the price of the raw material !!

 

http://www.speedymetals.com

http://www.onlinemetals.com

Look around on ebay for scraps too.

 

I'm sure your friend with the machine shop can source the materials for you.

 

exactly..Ask your friend for "the prices to get started on materials"

Since he's a machinist...

 

LOL... you're on your second week of CAD and think you can design a piston...
I've been using CAD in school for a month and I can't do **** on it.
Sure you can draw a basic cylinder and do ring valleys and a basic piston pin placement, but theres lot more to pistons than just that.

Maybe you should come back to ground earth from the cloud castles.

 

funniest thread ever..

 

Just curious if you had any drafting experience in HS.

Most pistons are machined from either castings or forgings. castings for oem low hP applications and forgings for most race high HP apps. For the high HP apps the forging besides eliminating allot of machine work has a better grain structure to resist cracking and provide better stability. The pistons are also anything but round. this is done so that as it heats up it will become round. The more heat the more the expansion and therefore the smaller it would need to be.

I would pick a different project to make if I were you unless you just want something to hold in your hand. Cad does't make you a designer/engineer. Its a drawing aid and if you didn't have some basic drafting in HS and understand those basics then cad isn't going to be the brilliant savior. I did a little over 3 years of drafting in HS ( I am allot older) and passed my test for drafting upon entering college.

i suggest you get some items and try to draw them. Even a simple nut and bolt although I know you can just go to the symbles/ hardware folder and grab them.

Start simple. learn the relationship between a .100 diamerter circle and a .001

The biggest problem I have seen with cad is showing things which are very small to someone and they cna't get it untill you zoom the screen so that it is displayed at it actual size. Looking at something full screen that is only a half inch or even more long is difficult for some to visualize.

bob


Modified by KFMRC at 12:13 PM 2/6/2008

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Flashmn &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've been using CAD in school for a month and I can't do **** on it.

Maybe you should come back to ground earth from the cloud castles. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Geesh man. Let the guy try and make the piston. I promise he will learn more than you have in a month trying it on his own. Who cares if the piston fails, kills his motor, what ever.

The guy wants to try it, go for it man. Do some research and get your buddies help. The outcome will more than likely not be near the results of piston manufacturers out there, but that is the risk you take when you try out your own stuff. Don't worry about all these other haters that are scared to try fabrication on their own.

 

Well, if this is going in a Honda, good luck. Flat head ford, this would take about 10 min.

lol

 

Hit a scrap yard. My local one charges $2-$3 a pound depending on the shape/size of the piece.

Off the top of my head the round stock needed to try this should cost about $15-$25 per unit depending on where you go.

You'll have a hard tine doing this on manual machines but it can be done. If nothing else it's great practice. Personally I'd start with a lawnmower motor. You can get 4 stroke lawn mower motors for cheap and they are easier to work with then full car motors. Plus you'll be more likely to smile if you blow up a small/cheap motor.

Remember some things are way harder then people think and some things are way easier then people think ..... you don't know until you try

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Blown90hatcH &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Geesh man. Let the guy try and make the piston. I promise he will learn more than you have in a month trying it on his own. Who cares if the piston fails, kills his motor, what ever.

The guy wants to try it, go for it man. Do some research and get your buddies help. The outcome will more than likely not be near the results of piston manufacturers out there, but that is the risk you take when you try out your own stuff. Don't worry about all these other haters that are scared to try fabrication on their own.

</TD></TR></TABLE>



Yes it probably wont yield very good results but you will learn SHITLOADS.

I bet the first Wiseco piston was a no more use than an ashtray

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Blown90hatcH &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Geesh man. Let the guy try and make the piston. I promise he will learn more than you have in a month trying it on his own. Who cares if the piston fails, kills his motor, what ever.

The guy wants to try it, go for it man. Do some research and get your buddies help. The outcome will more than likely not be near the results of piston manufacturers out there, but that is the risk you take when you try out your own stuff. Don't worry about all these other haters that are scared to try fabrication on their own.

</TD></TR></TABLE>


X2

he never even said he wanted to even actually use them, and if he has any intelligence im sure he wouldnt even try to take it very far anyway

TO the OP do it man, that is how the engineers became engineers they started where you did, DO IT and take pics I wanna see how it turns out.

as far as how much it costs?? sorry no info.


edit i guess i got bumped to X3 lol

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hybrid2007 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I bet the first Wiseco piston was a no more use than an ashtray </TD></TR></TABLE>

I want one of those! especially since I run wiseco's

 

my opinion is if you have the means make something useable, its awsome to have something you made that works, it becomes a talk peice, i machined a billet tie bar it was something fun to make cause it worked, try to design something like a spark plug cover, strutbar, batt tie down, if you realy wanna go crazy try and do some cam gears, there are so many parts that are easly machined and useable that you could make, sure making a piston is cool, but its not practical it will most likely sit on a self in your closet as do alot of my shot in the dark projects