First of all, Ive read the stickies and searched. So I'm a honda noob, and am looking for a dedicated HPDE car. I am thinking a b18c5 swapped, gutted and caged EG might be a good track car, but am not sure.

I was initially thinking Miata, but with nearly 2x the horsepower and nearly the same weight, I think the EG may overcome the front wheel drive disadvantage... Am I right in this train of thought or no...?

this is a car I am thinking of getting, btw. not sure why no-one has snapped it up yet...
http://www.freewebs.com/b18c5civic/index.htm

PS, I currently drive an EvoIX at the track. I realize a swapped hatch will be a different kind of animal, but hopefully a little more affordabe to track and maintain (and fix, should the need arise).

 

Both are great track cars. Miata and Civic's great HPDE cars.

 

This looks familiar. Tim? Bobby here. Welcome. So, that blue Civic is still out there? Has the priced changed on it, at all, since it's been available for a while? That might be to your advantage. Have you made an offer on that car, yet?

 

Hasn't that car been for sale for like two years? It even has the old school Azenis on there.

Just to emphasize what's already been said, yes, a swapped hatch will be a great track car. Just look at all the guys in Honda Challenge and ITA/B having fun

 

Haha, yes it's me Bobby! how are you?

yeah, I'm getting ready to buy something. I'm not in a terrible hurry and want to get a good car that's practically turn-key, has cage, seats, suspension, etc. all taken care of. that blue one looks like it might be the one, so i'm trying to get a feel for why it hasn't sold in so long...

starting to look at some k20a2 swaps too, but I've been warned that they are a little more nose heavy, and that the oil pan sits too low (off track event could puncture or rip it off).

So, I'm still a little confused.

I need to get back out to TWS, at least for a Sunday. Just started a new job, so blowing off some steam is in order.

thanks for the responses so far.

so I know this is a lame ?, but with similarly skilled drivers, swapped hatch >> Spec Miata?

 

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so I know this is a lame ?, but with similarly skilled drivers, swapped hatch &gt;&gt; Spec Miata?
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Really depends on the motor, but for the most part just about any swap I can think of should be faster than a Spec Miata.

You're used to an Evo, so this might not be a big deal, but K20-swapped hatches are pretty damn fast. Compared to a stockish ITR swap it's MUCH faster, figure a few seconds per lap.

 

Yeah, a swapped Civic would be faster than a Spec Miata.

Check out the 2007 NASA Nationals results at Mid-Ohio...
http://www.nasachampionships.com/2007results.html

The H4 cars are, for the most part, a little faster than most of the Spec Miatas and they're running factory engines, mostly single cam CRXs. The H2 cars would be more comparable to that blue one you're looking at and they're a second or two faster, on average. Then, you got H1, which blows away Spec Miata.

Spec Miatas might be a tad slower, but it's just a different type of thrill, being RWD. Sometimes, you'll see Spec Miatas and 944 racecars in the DE groups and they're typically pretty quick, but I can around them with 176 whp.

 

just thought id interject a thought.......some of the miata drivers are top notch so if you do get a civic and there is a pesky miata on your butt throughout the entire race.....or even getting in front of you, don't be discouraged, may take a bit to find the right balance between yourself and your new car. Ive seen miatas keep up with 350zs which isn't a huge accomplishment however is impressive considering the 350z has a lot more power and handles very well. Like stated previously you should pick up a few seconds on them. That blue civic looks like a good choice too by the way, over 230hp in that chassis will make a fast car.

 

Definitely consider the learning curverequired to drive the civic quickly after getting out of an Evo. I ran an Evo in TTA for 2 years in NASA TT, and did quite well, but the Evo has the tendency to make you look like a much better driver than you might actually be. It has so much grip and stability that it covers up a ton of mistakes. A fast FWD car (I have a 220 WHP 2040 pound CRX racecar now) feels like a really quick lawnmower by comparison...everything is happening at the front of the car, you need to late apex most cornes to be effective, you need to keep all of your momentum through turns, not over brake, etc... the evo has so much torque you can be quite lazy on corner exit. When I first drove th eCRX, I was pretty bummed, but that was based on prior expectations from the Evo, and not driving the CRX correctly. After two days in the CRX, I feel much better, and am appreciating the light weight, responsivity to braking. I think that by the end of the year I'll be as fast in the CRX or faster than I was in the Evo. Just putting this out as I have come from the same car as you. The biggest thing though is that th eHonda will cost you HALF of what it takes to track an Evo. Good luck. Note that your engine is completely illegal if you plan to go HC one day. I have the same problem, and will have to run PTA or ITE with SCCA.

 

^ is this Percy from over on evom?

If so I read about your transition to Honda, and it partially inspired me to look as well.

I am sure the evo covers a lot of my mistakes. I am also tired, though, of people claiming its "all the car." Part of the appeal (to me) of a swapped civic is that few HPDE type people expect them to be very fast. The lower cost is another large part of the appeal (obviously).

I am hoping that the slightly longer wheelbase of the EG or EK will make it a little less twitchy than your CRX.

anyway, thanks for all the responses!

 

Right on man, it's Percy, yes. I agree with you about not wanting to be judged on your car alone...but be forwarned, the Evo IS an easy car to drive vs. some others On the other hand I made a ton of progress in 4 20 minute sessions, and I'll be fine in PTA TTA, I'm sure of it. I was able to run 2:13 with bypass at thunderhill in the CRX literally coasting into all of the braking zones, not using the entire track, and not keeping the car in the powerband all the time, basically just driving it to get the "feel" of the car. I can take 10 seconds out of it in a long weekend. If you can drive, you'll be fine. the CRX does not feel "twitchy" to me, as some have suggested it would. It's fairly stable, but my Evo was set up a tad loose, which I like. I did spin the CRX once, and it came around RIGHT NOW though, but nothing catastrophic. It's going to be great fun!

 

another thought.....there will also be people saying....he is only fast because his car weights 2XXX pounds.......there will always be haters, always always always. The main thing is the reasons you personally have to do what you are doing such as having fun and keeping costs down....which you have already stated previously. Hagakure gave awesome advice being that hes coming from the same place you are....i hope you have a good time, good luck with everything.

 

I had an E46 M3. I now track a CRX w/ a b18c swap, because of the $. I am prepping my car for the track this week. I bought reman'ed calipers, new pads, new rotors, upgraded MC, and a bunch of other items for less than 2 BMW rotors. Plus I've broken down at the track before, and usually find what I need at the local AutoZone (open on Sundays and open late).

Personally a track car is all about price and practicallity. If it is cheap and reliable I can go to the track all the time. The performance part is about the driver. That said, a 200whp CRX w/ an ITR tranny will run down a C5 vette at the drag strip. It really is a lot of fun.

 

Which final drive do you have in your ITR Tranny? I've got the 4.4 and mean to swap it out for the 4.78 this winter when I add the KAAZ LSD.

 

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The 4.78 is a huge change, I'd highly advise it, it's what I have in my itr, after going back to a 4.40 in a friend's car it really was a mod that I never regretted.

I went from an Integra Type-R to a Civic hatchback as my track car...big change as well.

btw Hagakure - I'll be at Sears this weekend in a red hatchback, #21, though I'll still be in the HPDE groups.

 

Cool, thanks. My wife is due in less than 2 weeks, so my first time out witht he car in 08 will be at T-hill with NCRC June 21-22. I am only doing three weekends in 08, and a full season of racing in 2009. Have to make th eadjustment to the new addition.

 

At the last HPDE I went to, a spec miata was passing a new Z06 ob the front straight at Lime Rock...watch out for them mazdas

 

That only means the Z06 driver was a tool. In the more advanced groups where people actually know what they're doing, Vettes &gt; Miatas every time.

 

Except they where both in HPDE 3...

 

I passed a Supra once. I've also been passed by a Dodge Neon. True story.

Civics &lt; Neons &gt; TT Supras.

 

Maybe the Z06 moved up to HPDE3 too soon, while coincidentally the Miata driver had 20 years of experience...and was also Randy Pobst. Or maybe the Z06 was on a cool down lap, or was waiting for his other Vette buddy to catch up so they could roll people as a pair. It doesn't matter, given equal drivers, its just silly to say a Spec Miata is any kind of match for a Z06.

 

Anyhow, back on topic....

I've built my hatch for HPDE's and the street. I tried finding a balance between a good street car but at the same time, building a car that would be comfortable at the track. Check my sig.

 

Here is a 265hp EG at Sebring. The car is very fast.
The driver is on the board, I believe his screen name is EleanoR

Chin Motorsports track day at Sebring in a 265hp Honda Civic hatchback

 

Nice vid. what is his motor setup?

 

yeah that blue eg is a 2liter with alot of power lol may be a a crazy car to learn in. IDK your level of experience but that thing is about as serious as you'll wanna get minus flares and R compounds lol.
btw that eg posted above at Sebring, is that really 265whp? it doesn't seem like it would/should get walked on the straights but those Porsche's