did any body watch the new episode of street tuner challenge (yeah its kind of gay, but skunk2 puts in work)

anyways when theyre on the track skunk2 is pumping some stuff into their tires on the evo, not with an air pump just like a push pump kind of thing like they are pumping a liquid into their already inflated tires, they didnt say what it was but sarcasticaly said "secret sauce" anybody have an idea of what it is and how it bennefits the car?


is it as good as vtec?

 

im assuming something(water) to cool down the slicks so they didnt get glazed like a doughnut lol ?

 

Portable Nitrofill? can't image anything else

 

I'm pretty sure that it`s a liquid to make the tire softer, IE stickier...

 

or too cool down tires.... autox we use water sprayers to cool down tires after each run so they dont get greasy and times fall off

 

Its probably Nitrogen. Lots of new-car dealers have Nitrogen generating machines now. There are also portable units avialable. Do some searching on the net for Purigen98 or Nitrofil.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by db1love &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Its probably Nitrogen. Lots of new-car dealers have Nitrogen generating machines now. There are also portable units avialable. Do some searching on the net for Purigen98 or Nitrofil.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

That'd be my guess as well, but I admit it's just a guess.

I don't think it would make sense to put any kind of tread softening compound on the inside of the tyre. Just asking for trouble there. :-)

Whatever it is, if Skunk2 is doing it, you can bet it makes sense for the application. That does not mean it will make sense for your application, so be careful.

 

Nitrogen, almost certainly. The reason to use nitrogen in tires rather than air is that Nitrogem expands much less when it gets hotter. And we all know that there is no room for the gas to expand in a tire, instead the tire pressure goes up.

So an air filled tire will change its pressure more when it heats up then one filled with nitrogen and that can impact handling significantly.

 

I was reading recently in a magazine that the Ferrari F1 team uses a special gas mixture that shares a similar chemical composition to refrigerant if memory serves. Apparently it enables the wheel to act as a radiator for the tire, maintaining more consistent and lower tire temps. It also allows the driver to run harder and longer on the same compound compared to nitrogen filled tires.

Just found the article: http://www.racecar-engineering....html

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by djphoebus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm pretty sure that it`s a liquid to make the tire softer, IE stickier...</TD></TR></TABLE><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr.OB*GYN_Rhett &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">im assuming something(water) to cool down the slicks so they didnt get glazed like a doughnut lol ?</TD></TR></TABLE>

if they were spraying it on the outer carcas, yes. but since they are pumping it into the tire via the valve, its nitrogen for sure. if u pumped a liquid INTO the tire (ie water) with the temps tires see on track, odd things would happen with pressures.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 00R101 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Nitrogen, almost certainly. The reason to use nitrogen in tires rather than air is that Nitrogem expands much less when it gets hotter. And we all know that there is no room for the gas to expand in a tire, instead the tire pressure goes up.

So an air filled tire will change its pressure more when it heats up then one filled with nitrogen and that can impact handling significantly.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Actually it has nothing to do with the nitrogen really and all to do with the moisture in the air.
When you use nitrogen, it eliminates a large percentage of the moisture that would be contained within the air that's in the tire.
No moisture, and the air will not expand nearly as much!

 

I would imagine that if you start spraying a gas into an already presurrized tire that the pressure would still increase. The tire is on the track gaining heat and expanding the tire and increasing pressure, which would make the wheel loose traction right?

Taking out the water in the air increases the density of the air. water is H2O and is molecularly less in mass than O2 and N2 which are the largest mass parts in air. I'm not sure how pumping in a gas would get rid of the water.

 

it was a liquid that was being added, not a gas because of the type of pump they were useing to fill the tires.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blaze the chemi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would imagine that if you start spraying a gas into an already presurrized tire that the pressure would still increase. The tire is on the track gaining heat and expanding the tire and increasing pressure, which would make the wheel loose traction right?</TD></TR></TABLE>

You're right that pressure would increase, but if they started out too low increasing the pressure wouldn't be bad. Finding the ideal pressure takes a little bit of playing around.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blaze the chemi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Taking out the water in the air increases the density of the air. water is H2O and is molecularly less in mass than O2 and N2 which are the largest mass parts in air. I'm not sure how pumping in a gas would get rid of the water.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Compressed nitrogen is drier than normal air out of a compressor. If you hooked up a drier to a compressor, the effect would be similar. Meaning, you're not "getting rid of the water" so much as "replacing the wet gas with dry gas." In the long run, nitrogen molecules are larger in diameter than oxygen molecules, and so seep out the pores of the rubber less. That doesn't really have an effect in the racing community though. You address molecular density and mass, I don't see how that's pertinent to anything.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chairwitharmrests &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">it was a liquid that was being added, not a gas because of the type of pump they were useing to fill the tires.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That really doesn't make any sense. Do you know what a nitrogen pump looks like, out of curiousity?

Edit: Might also have been CO2, though that's not the greatest idea.

 

Yeah, I saw that episode and like "chair" said it was a liquid pump they where using. It wouldn't be watter since it would vaporize too early and it would make the tire pressures go crazy. I'm guessing its a liquid that keeps the tires warm or at a certain temperature. I highly doubt that its even liquid nitrogen because that wouldn't serve a purpose. Now they where using R compound tires so my guess is that its something to keep the tire either from getting too hot, or keeping them hot enough.

Either way they lost the "Stree Tuner Challenge!"

 

Liquid nitrogen CANNOT possibly work for anything inside a tire.

 

Liquid? Maybe it was fix-a-flat.

 

I think the street tuner challenges needs a budget for christ sake!

I'm not talkin about no "WELL THIS WAS DONATED" or "WE were only charged 1,000 for a longblock from Mistubishi.. ." I'm talking RETAIL value of the part, used or new.. .

The EVO was no street car.. . the Focus was.. . The Mini was just crap.. .

With a $10,000 cap.. . EVO WINS DUH!

 

LOL like when they had the Skyline in with economy cars? Good stuff.

 

There are plenty of tire compound treatments that treat the tire from the inside...however seeing as how they were probably using some sort of DOT tire (i'm guessing i don't bother watching those shows) It wouldn't do much good. All of these internal treatments are used for racing slicks to soften the rubber. Mostly used in circle track racing, which is why teams in any NASCAR series do not mount their own tires or use their own air, NASCAR teams don't even actually own their tires they are on a modified lease program from Goodyear. The local track guys and some drag racing stuff is where these are used for the most part. If skunk2 was using this stuff, well just reassures my own thoughts on their capabilities beyond blowing out big hp numbers in cars.

 

Hot Lap or a similar product maybe?
several of the guys i work with that race use it on,and in,their tires.but that's on go-karts and circle track racing on bias ply(i'm assuming the NASCAR regional series' still use bias ply?)tires.not sure if it'd work inside radials.
Chris

 

How do you use any liquid in a tire? I would think putting water,hotlap etc into a tire through the stem, it would pool at one end and cause a nice imbalance...at least any amount that would coat a full tire.

Also how do you force h2o out of a tire that already has air in it? I don't think they are that porous?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by essex &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Also how do you force h2o out of a tire that already has air in it? I don't think they are that porous?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't think anyone is really trying to force H20 out.. . More so just keep it from getting in / pumping up tires with Nitrogen which doesn't break down into H20 like C02 does so easily.

It's actually reccomended by tire manufacturers of R comps that you let the air out of your tires when you put them in storage. Also that you keep them in bags and in a place that is not too humid or dry or exposed to UV rays. This will keep your tires from drying out, getting hard and excreting as few oils/compounds as possible. The fresher the better

I say just drive the shat out of your tires so you don't have them sitting around for years on in

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by essex &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How do you use any liquid in a tire? I would think putting water,hotlap etc into a tire through the stem, it would pool at one end and cause a nice imbalance...at least any amount that would coat a full tire.

Also how do you force h2o out of a tire that already has air in it? I don't think they are that porous?</TD></TR></TABLE>

The liquid treatments inside tires aren't really....liquids for very long if at all. They are going to go into the tire as a mist through the valve. Again this is for RACE tires, they make some for radial tires but even RACE slicks that are radials are constructed much differently than a DOT legal tire hence they won't really work on a DOT tire. The tire is going to heat up keeping the "mist" in a vapor form which leaches into the tire carcass and essentially causes a chemical reaction which makes the rubber softer/grippier. It only really works for a short period, maybe a short race or two. Depending on the treatment might only be good for a couple laps before the tire basically wants to destroy itself.

Bias plys are still used in some Dirt series but all the asphalt series are on Radials.

Also most commercially available Nitrogen systems aren't going to put 100% Nitrogen into a tire, more like 94-96%, because the system will not pull a vacuum on the tire at the risk of popping the beads. Air that you put in your tire is already roughly 80% Nitrogen anyways it just bumps up the percentage.