Ok, I have a 98ex that I've rebuilt for street/hpde use. The suspension setup is pretty simple :

- PIC Coilover 10k/8k (car has been cornerweighted)
- 24mm front bar, 22mm comptech rear bar/brace
- Mugen bushings front/rear
- Front strut tower brace

I'm a long ways off from making this car a dedicated race car, so a cage really isn't an option right now.

The car handles *very* neutral. The rear end brakes loose in a very predictable way.

I'm looking at getting the password jdm rear strut tower brace along with the rear truck lateral brace (not one of those crazy monkey bars). Here is a pic of the rear trunk lateral brace. This pic also shows some x-bar setup as well. I'm only considering the bar closest to the rear, over where the car jack is stored.

http://passwordjdm.com/Passwor....aspx

Anyone have any input? Worth getting? Money better spent elsewhere? I know that the ITR has a factory brace in this area, so seems like this would be worth considering.

 

if you are going to be getting a cage someday....save the money now and put what you were going to spend on the rear strut bar/trunk bar towards a cage.

i have both in my race car for the bling factor and i need weight...that is the only reason they are in.....cage will do plenty for the car.

chad

 

Thanks for the input. Part of the issue is that *IF* I get a cage, its probably at least 2yrs out. I'm ok with spending the money now, but I want to make sure that I would actually be getting something for the money and not throwing it away on useless parts.

Of course if I'm able to go dedicated and get a cage down the road, I could always sell the bars and get a few bucks back.

 

I can't imagine it would make a noticeable enough difference that you'd be happy with it. What exactly are you trying to change about the car's behavior? If you're happy with how it drives, save that money.

<--- Has a strut bar sitting in the basement at home, more of a hassle to put back on than it's worth.

 

Well,

#1 - part of my brain says you won't be faster unless you have bought something new since the last time
#2 - I've been looking at the ITR as a template with the assumption that if honda deemed it necessary to put on X bit from the factory, then its worth me taking a look at it.

The car is actually behaving quite well. My concern is that with the bumped up spring rates that the chassis and shock towers will be flexing much more and that if I stiffened the chassis up, then the car would be even more consistent especially through transitions.

 

Two problems with your theory:

#1: Experience will constantly make you faster. Without making any changes to my car whatsoever, I ALWAYS pick up some time.
#2: The ITR is designed as a total package. You can't look at each individual part and assume it'll do something for you. Like the goofy little trunk brace thing they have (very back of the car, between the taillights).

Do you have a camera mount in the car? I know of one guy who filmed his rear shock towers during a race, and there was a lot of flex. Still though, I don't know that a bolt-in brace would do a ton to fix that.

 

Yeah, I definately know that seat-time always trumps new parts.

As for the ITR package, I agree which is why I've tried to make sure all upgrades compliment each other and serve a purpose.

I just recently got a camera so my next track visit will be the first time that I use it.

 

Functionally, it's a complete waste of money, IMO. First problem is that it ties into the top of the shocks, not a "strut" or a control arm. Second, even if it's supposed to help the shocks do what shocks are supposed to do, it ties into the shock perpendicular the to the direction of force on the shock.

 

in my opinion.... the "effectiveness" of a "strut" bar or and tie bar or brace is limited to the effect of stiffening the chassis. because thats simply all it does! its NOT a suspension device. it just adds chassis rigidity, either a little (insignificant?) or enough to effect the feel or response of the car.

1 tie bar is only going to effect the area around it, or what its connected to. so you have to evaluate what is the true effect of that area being braced.

specifically a rear "strut" tower bar is really not going to do much potentially anyway. whats there really to brace? true, it is quite an open area, but the way it mounts and affects the body, it doesnt affect really any area of performance gain or even chassis rigidity where it matters. i'd say the same goes for that trunk bar even in an ITR.

however, for a front "strut" tower bar, it does have somewhat of an effect to feel and response of the car. it doesnt affect the suspension directly, it just makes the front end of the chassis stiffer, and a lot is going on in the front end of a FWD car. including steering inputs and chassis flex that does somewhat affect suspension. perhaps minimally, but its present. at least on my crx with a good solid bar like a neuspeed.

the greatest effect ive felt from chassis stiffening is a subframe brace on my S2000. really, the effect is simply changing the response of the chassis. this may simply be limited to affecting the feel going over bumps. makes it more solid because it connects 4 unconnected parts of the front end directly under the engine. does it decrease lap times? absolutely NOT. but not all modifications need to be justified simply by direct decrease in lap times... it is what it is, a chassis stiffening device.

 

Agreed. I've always been of the mindset that anything that stiffens the chassis allows the suspension to do its job better. So the question is, where are the correct places to stiffen? Makes sense that anyplace the suspension ties into the chassis would be a good candidate.

Strut bars also help tie the 2 sides of the car together to better distribute the load.

I can visualize the difference that it would make on the rear strut tower since the shock is mounted at an angle, we have both lateral and vertical forces applied. The strut bar only helps to distribute the vertical forces, but should help eliminate the lateral forces. Question is, just how much lateral force is there? It might be significant, and then again, it might not be.

So I'm not going to bother with the rear truck brace. However there still seems to be benefit with the rear strut tower brace. Anyone had a chance to run with and without one? Was it noticeable?

 

ive heard consistent feedback that the rear bar doesnt do jack.

 

Good enough. Thanks

 

i have one, i noticed a difference, ive had 4 civics, i noticed a difference on all of them with the addition of a rear strut tower bar, some people may argue it does nothing, but i notice the difference and will continue to use one, i would suggest you use one too, unless you do get your cage sooner.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ive heard consistent feedback that the rear bar doesnt do jack.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Here's some more for you Tyson...it doesn't do sh*t.

The only reason I run one is because my folks got it for me for Christmas back in '02. I'm sure it's doing something, I just can't feel it (I've tracked with and without it).

Want to change the feel of your car and seriously stiffen the chassis? Purchase an Autopower 4-point roll bar...that will do more for you than any strut bar or chassis brace (at least on a FF honda as I can't speak for S2k's).

 

I'm sort of in agreement with most here, but just thought I'd confuse the matter a little with my own data point. Firstly, this is in regards to my crx so results or effect probably is different in a coupe.

I have two rear tower bars. One is a "generic" bar made in Taiwan that is constructed with at least fairly good material. The design is a single bolt connection at each end of the center bar to the bar mounts at the strut/tower. The center bar is threaded on each end and you can turn it to change the length of the center section if you so choose to do for whatever reason. Once the length is set, there are "jam" nuts that you can tighten to fix the center section. With this bar, I feel no added rigidity AT ALL and I've tried it with an Autopower 4-point on and off as well. Mind you the 4-point added rigidity, but I felt no additional difference in rigidity adding this bar with the 4-point.

The second bar I have is the Neuspeed unit. The design is a two bolt attachment at each end of a fixed length center bar. Basically, there are two holes on each end of the center bar to then attach to the mounts at the top of the strut. There is no way to adjust the length of the center section unless you start cutting or drilling and welding. I used this bar for around 2years before I got the Autopower 4-point and with this bar there definitely is a noticeable difference in rigidity back there, to the extent that I would take it on/off because it was just too uncomfortable for me driving around the streets of San Francisco (cue music). The feel is especially noticeable driving over bumpy uneven surfaces, for instance like crossing cable car tracks. To me it feels like I put stiffer springs in the rear and with a gutted crx already being so light back there it feels like the back is pogo'ing off bumpy surfaces when I drive over them. I notice the added rigidity difference even with the 4-point in as well. Also, I run an ST rear sway bar and I thought the 3-wheel motion of approaching a sidewalk driveway at an angle with this sway bar was bad - with the Neuspeed tower bar in the mix, it's even worse.

So I notice a difference with the Neuspeed bar. Here's the problem: my current driving skills doesn't care right now and I probably would be better off with a softer set up back there to give me more time to catch the car if and when things go too far wrong on the track.

Well, take my experience for what it's worth. I'm not endorsing a Neuspeed bar but I think the design does a better job at "boxing" the back, and I'm no suspension guru so please be gentle if you gotta rip me.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JamesS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm sort of in agreement with most here, but just thought I'd confuse the matter a little with my own data point. Firstly, this is in regards to my crx so results or effect probably is different in a coupe.

I have two rear tower bars. One is a "generic" bar made in Taiwan that is constructed with at least fairly good material. The design is a single bolt connection at each end of the center bar to the bar mounts at the strut/tower. The center bar is threaded on each end and you can turn it to change the length of the center section if you so choose to do for whatever reason. Once the length is set, there are "jam" nuts that you can tighten to fix the center section. With this bar, I feel no added rigidity AT ALL and I've tried it with an Autopower 4-point on and off as well. Mind you the 4-point added rigidity, but I felt no additional difference in rigidity adding this bar with the 4-point.

The second bar I have is the Neuspeed unit. The design is a two bolt attachment at each end of a fixed length center bar. Basically, there are two holes on each end of the center bar to then attach to the mounts at the top of the strut. There is no way to adjust the length of the center section unless you start cutting or drilling and welding. I used this bar for around 2years before I got the Autopower 4-point and with this bar there definitely is a noticeable difference in rigidity back there, to the extent that I would take it on/off because it was just too uncomfortable for me driving around the streets of San Francisco (cue music). The feel is especially noticeable driving over bumpy uneven surfaces, for instance like crossing cable car tracks. To me it feels like I put stiffer springs in the rear and with a gutted crx already being so light back there it feels like the back is pogo'ing off bumpy surfaces when I drive over them. I notice the added rigidity difference even with the 4-point in as well. Also, I run an ST rear sway bar and I thought the 3-wheel motion of approaching a sidewalk driveway at an angle with this sway bar was bad - with the Neuspeed tower bar in the mix, it's even worse.

So I notice a difference with the Neuspeed bar. Here's the problem: my current driving skills doesn't care right now and I probably would be better off with a softer set up back there to give me more time to catch the car if and when things go too far wrong on the track.

Well, take my experience for what it's worth. I'm not endorsing a Neuspeed bar but I think the design does a better job at "boxing" the back, and I'm no suspension guru so please be gentle if you gotta rip me. </TD></TR></TABLE>

kinda proves what i always thought, the cheap **** ebay ones do nothing, the good ones do work, i have only used good ones like cusco, neuspeed, trust, and they all worked for me, both front and rear.

 

Do anyone know about those pre-built cages that you only need to weld after assembly? Would they be a good option?

 

A good option for what? That's not really relevant to this thread, and has been covered before. Search, buddy

 

Ok..... thanks.

 

Has anyone been able to tell any difference with the ebay braces? I would like to get tower braces for my car and there is someone local selling front and rear for $20 total. Would I be wasting my money buying them?

 

yes, cool 4 year thread..............

 

::facepalm:: just read the whole damn thing and was about to throw in a smartass comment...

crap it just happened.

 

That's what happens when people just respond with "search the forums" But finding a 4 year old thread and reviving it is a real gem.

 

I did search. I was just making sure nothing changed.