I've been running colbalt sports for awhile and on the way to expo 7 my front pads gave out. So I put on my spare fronts I had. Over the winter I picked up some carbotechs xp8 but only the front set. (I just assumed the rears were fine). Now my rear brakes are sqealing and sure enough they are close to the end of its life.

So my question is for track only do I need to get something high performance or can something more basic work? I can get Xp8's for the rear but there 130 bucks or so. I was just trying to save a little.

Any suggestions are welcome.

 

FWIW I run VR's up front and GT's out back. I don't think you need as aggresive of a pad out back for the simple fact that the fronts do most of the braking.

/.02

 

70/30 Split....

70% front
30% rear

I am not nearly concerned about my rears as i am the fronts

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dave_B &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">FWIW I run VR's up front and GT's out back. I don't think you need as aggresive of a pad out back for the simple fact that the fronts do most of the braking.

/.02</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah I know that the fronts do most of the work. Thats why I was wondering whats perhaps the cheapest brake pad I can get that's going to stand up to the heat. If I buy an off brand pad do think I will run into problems?

Like these

http://www.autozone.com/R,APP1...l.htm

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by citrus3000psi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Yeah I know that the fronts do most of the work. Thats why I was wondering whats perhaps the cheapest brake pad I can get that's going to stand up to the heat. If I buy an off brand pad do think I will run into problems?</TD></TR></TABLE>

There has been recent mentionings of a new material OEM pad. Carbometaillic or something like that. Though I have no experience, it might be an option for you to look into. I think I saw BPR post something about it.

 

who needs brakes anyhow, they just slow you down

 

Axxis Ultimates are a nice slight improvement over stock, and are still very affordable. I use these, and know several other people who do. Works great as a rear pad on track.

 

The fronts do most of the braking, so you don't need as much braking power in the rear. However, you still need something decent enough to stand up to heat, especially if you are tracking the car. I wouldn't recommend getting the no-name brake pads at your local auto parts store. But you could get by, for example, with stock rear pads (part number 43022-S84-A50, list $58.59, Delray Acura $46.64).

 

I use apexi A750's on the rear of my ITR, have never had any problems with them and find the handbrake is really good with them. I cant honestly say how they compare to any other rear pads as i've never used any others and never been in a position where i felt my rear brakes were lacking. I was always told to put cheap pads on the rear as they generally have a better cold bite and seeing as the rear brakes never really get much heat in them on the street a cheap pad would suffice.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Stinkycheezmonky &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Axxis Ultimates are a nice slight improvement over stock, and are still very affordable. I use these, and know several other people who do. Works great as a rear pad on track.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Stinkycheezmonky &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Axxis Ultimates are a nice slight improvement over stock, and are still very affordable. I use these, and know several other people who do. Works great as a rear pad on track.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks for the info looks like I'll take this route.

 

Here's some food for thought:

Minimizing your braking distance has to do with maintaining your brake balance. It's true that more braking happens in the front but having the same material pads and rotor surface front and rear help maintain that OEM spec braking ratio. I'm sure you can tweak the bias and play around but unless you're really in to that stuff and want to adjust it to your particular method of driving the best way is to keep it in the same ratio as stock. Sometimes when going with a big brake kit people actually take longer to brake due to this loss of balance (slotted and cross drilled rotors used in those BBKs are also a big factor).

I would recommend you have the same brake pads front and rear if you care that much about the extra few feet of stopping. If not, find comparable pad types for the front and rear and you should be fine.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2wheelsmoker &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I would recommend you have the same brake pads front and rear if you care that much about the extra few feet of stopping. If not, find comparable pad types for the front and rear and you should be fine. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I think it's pretty safe to say you're not an experienced track person, because your suggestion is incorrect. You are correct that brake balance is important, however that doesn't mean same compound front and rear, it means only...balance.

What makes you think front and rear OEM pads have the same composition as each other? Do you have any data/proof to substantiate that?

 

First off, I'd like to state that my recommendation here is to be helpful and the information I post is from the "experience" you question but let's not go in to that . I don't mind addressing your difference in opinion as I am not opposed to being proven wrong or re-educated.

I do not have any data on the exact composition of the OEM brake pads nor any other type of brake pads. But I would like to think that if I buy Hawk HT-10s or PFC 01 compound pads they would be the same for the front and rear as that's what I'm paying for, no? It would be a big surprise to me if they were actually made of different stuff. Do you have data proving they are different?

I have run HP+ in the front and HPS is the back. Although I did not feel that much of a difference in braking I did notice more wear in the rear than the fronts. The point I was trying to make is if you're using aggressive pads in front it might be a good idea to use aggressive ones in the rear as well. The closest match being the most ideal. If I'm wrong then please explain.

We're completely on the same page when saying the front provides more stopping force than the rear. Imagine though if you had very aggressive pads in the front and not as aggressive pads in the rear how under braking the fronts would break traction before the rear. Wouldn't the same compound for both prevent that if the front and rear maintained the same ratio of the coefficient of friction? And yes, I'm talking about balance here .

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by R you serious &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">who needs brakes anyhow, they just slow you down </TD></TR></TABLE>

lol.. riceR

I am definitely more concerned about going from stops starting at 100 then starts ending at 100

RCR &gt; Drag

 

Aftermarket front and rear pad composition should be the same. As you said, that's what you're paying for. My question referred specifically to OEM pads though. I don't know whether or not front and rear pads have the same composition as they come from the factory, but I also didn't make that claim or assumption. OEM pads also have more compromise built into them for daily drivability which doesn't translate well to a track pad. As such, OEM balance may not be ideal for track driving, just like OEM ride height is not ideal. That's not really the point though.

The problem with your thinking is this: locking up the rear wheels first is much worse than locking up the front wheels first. Why? Because when you do that, you have no stability, leading to spins or extreme nervousness. The reason you need a different compound is because of weight transfer off of the rear under braking. In a FWD Honda there isn't much weight to begin with, so when you shift the static weight forward even more it becomes very easy to stop that wheel rotation. That means locking up the rears. The more aggressive the rear pad, the greater the tendency will be for that rear lockup, further exacerbated by that weight transfer.

I'm not explaining myself well here, but I hope you get the idea.

Weight transfer is where your logic is failing.

Just as evidence for this theory, I do use very aggressive pads in the front and mild pads in the rear (Cobalt XR3s front, Axxis Ultimate rear). Most of the Honda drivers I know mirror this kind of pad difference, with some of the faster/heavier cars using more aggressive pads front and rear, but still with the rears significantly less aggressive than the fronts.

I apologize for being testy in my earlier response. I've been made...aggravated by some noobs lately, and it's showing in all my posting

 

hmm well said. I never thought about that before.

To the OP, I've been using Axxis ultimates the past year. They work very well, but get a little dusty, so keep up on those rims!

 

Don't worry, my skin is thick and I don't take things personally, especially on an internet forum . I understand what you're explaining and I've heard it explained that way before. I want to point out that I was making recommendations based on track usage, not street driving conditions and hence me not even considering OEM pads for track duty.

The way I like to think of it is this - you can either have a safe setup that doesn't have the rear break traction first under threshold braking or you can have a setup where 4 wheels will break traction at the same time under threshold braking. I'd like to think that the point where all 4 breaking at the same time would be best as you've used up all traction for the front and rear as opposed to only one end of the car. Most prefer the safer route as road conditions and undulations can adversely affect that finely tuned balance. Similar to how you can maximize a turbo tune to make the most power under ideal conditions vs. a safer tune for all conditions.

My advice to other people reading this is that it's probably safer to go with Stinky's advice than mine. Like I said in my first post, it's food for thought so take it as you will. I'm not an engineer, physicist, nor professional racer so I do not claim to know what's best. I can only recommend with good intentions.

 

I'll be ordering some XR5 pads for the rear of the car shortly.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2wheelsmoker &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I can only recommend with good intentions. </TD></TR></TABLE>

That is much appreciated

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Zygspeed &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'll be ordering some XR5 pads for the rear of the car shortly. </TD></TR></TABLE> ?
either listen to what epople say and try the stock or close to stock pad in the rear or try a more aggressive rear pad. but be carefull.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Lo-Buck EF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> ?
either listen to what epople say and try the stock or close to stock pad in the rear or try a more aggressive rear pad. but be carefull.</TD></TR></TABLE>

&lt;sigh&gt;
You're talking to someone that went to Expo 1 in Buttonwillow running Porterfield race (R4) pads front and rear, and on 032R Yokohamas when people were saying they wouldn't last 1K miles on the street.

noobs! LOL!

P.S. Spencer, I thought we were going to settle this on the track.

 

On most late model cars, the rear brake pads are becoming more and more important. No just in compound, but also in pad thickness. Never under estimate their importance.
On the ITR, I have found, with extensive trial and error ( I have installed, tried and raced over 18 compounds for different manufs) that the rears are VERY sensitive to thickness. Meaning, after 50% wear ( most [people think they are still good), the rear pads no long brake like they should because of caliper (in) action.

The moment you replace rear pads, the brake pedal comes back nice and firm.

As far as compound is concerned, you should run the rear pads as close as possible to the front compounds. The ITRs stellar ABS allows you to get away with this and brake mbite and stopping distances are dramatically reduced.
Allowing the rears to work well, will also prolong the life of the fronts and avoid possible fade in severe conditions.

When I run R6s on the ITR for solosprint events, I use Hawk blue or Gransport GS3 up front with Hawk HP+ in the rear. The last time I used PBR ultimates in the rear, I felt noticable reduced braking performance.

In the end, use what you can afford and for the type of tracking you are doing. But never discount the rear brakes performance.

 

non

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by totsie7944 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
To the OP, I've been using Axxis ultimates the past year. They work very well, but get a little dusty, so keep up on those rims! </TD></TR></TABLE>

Ohhhhh Tootsie.